Gabrielle Lyon 00:00

Is there something that happened? Was there a moment that made you start to reflect on transitioning from being super gritty to finding a middle balance for more empathy? I don’t

Leila Hormozi 00:14

know if there was one moment, but I think there were, like, lots of little moments leading up. I think it’s really easy to get caught up in wanting to win. Like I went through a period in the beginning of my first business where I said, the only thing that matters is this, and it’s because, like, you know, me and Alex, my partner, husband, we put all our money into it. We had no money. We lost all of our money, like we were broke. And I was like, I don’t get me about anybody else. I need to make money. Otherwise I don’t. What am I gonna do? I’m not gonna, like, go back. Like, that would suck. And so I just said, like, I don’t really care about friendships. I don’t really care about seeing my family right now. I don’t care about anything. Like, I need to make this work, failures data. I don’t understand I like, actually don’t like, I do not think failure is a bad thing. I think people have a bad relationship with failure. They look at it like it means something about them. They look at it like it’s a bad thing. Like, every time you fail, you are that much closer to success. Like, I really do believe that innately in my blood, like there has been nothing that I have succeeded at that I have not

Gabrielle Lyon 01:12

failed at first, people are always striving to make it. Do you feel like you’ve made it? You Hey,

Gabrielle Lyon 01:33

Layla, so good to see you. It’s good to see you too. This is great. We get to do it in person in Las Vegas. Amazing. I’m so excited. So you’ve been in fitness for a long time? Yes, technically, right? And my question is, do you think that you would have come as far if fitness wasn’t a standard?

Leila Hormozi 01:52

It’s actually really funny, because I was talking about that with my husband, like, literally, a week ago, which was, I’m so glad that I actually had the foundation in fitness going into business, because I think just with how immersed I have been in it, and, like, how much up the obsession that’s taken over my life, I don’t know if I would’ve been able to take care of myself. I hadn’t, like, had the foundation there, and so we were both talking about that. Like, I think that if I hadn’t had the foundation, there’s a few things, which is, like, one, I don’t think that I would have been able to go as long as I have, or have the endurance, because I wouldn’t have known how to take care of myself. And so it’s like, if I hadn’t known how to eat or how to exercise or sleep, or like any of those things, I think I would have burned out pretty quick. I think a lot of people do. And I would say the second thing is that the skill of learning how to do things that suck, that are hard, that you don’t feel like doing, that go against. It’s like things that feel bad, but then you learn are good for you, like most things, which is most things, right? I think fitness really taught me that, I would say the last one is like confidence. You know, every time, like when I got into fitness, when I was super overweight, I didn’t have any confidence, and I learned that you never feel ready. You never feel like you should be in the gym. You never until eventually, one day, it just kind of happens, and it’s the output, not the input. And so no, I don’t think that I would have been able to and like, I still love fitness so much, because it’s like, no matter what has happened, I think a lot of people see what I do, and they must think like, you have no life you do. I will not go a day without doing exercise like I have never. The only time that I’ve not exercised like if I’m post surgery and I cannot, I think one time I had a really bad flu and I didn’t go on a walk. Besides that, it’s been, like, 15 years.

Gabrielle Lyon 03:38

That’s it’s unusual, right? So I see entrepreneurs in my practice, and I can always tell a rookie entrepreneur, you know, why? Why? Because they work all the time, and they don’t take care of themselves, and there’s this inevitable burnout, because it’s predictable. Yeah, right. You’re chasing these highs and lows, but the seasoned entrepreneur is really steady, really steady. You said something else that I thought was really interesting, this idea that there’s confidence and belief. And, you know, I was thinking about the warriors in the arena, you know, like, my son’s name is Leonidas. We talk lots about the Spartans, and he’s training for the SEAL teams. By the way, he’s four. He’s four. It’s really tough when your four year old wants to cold plunge, and you’re like, No, bro, I’m out. I’m good, yeah, and it makes you look, yeah, pretty weak. But besides the point, you know, I think about those Spartans and the Warriors and the gladiators, I don’t think that they had self belief before they stepped into the arena. No, like, I think it’s interesting, because I think now,

Leila Hormozi 04:41

I mean, I think a lot about this actually, which is almost like, even just, like, the like, if we go back really, really far, we didn’t even have language. Now we have language. And it’s like, how does that affect how quickly we take action? Because we’re, you know, we, instead of just going and doing the thing, we have the option of, like, talking about it. And then. Talking to somebody and, like, almost emotionally vomiting about the thing until we do the thing. So, like, that’s super meta, but I think about that a lot. I think it’s just a fallacy. Because, like for me, when I start anything, like when I was 100 pounds overweight before I started my first business, before I started my business, I have now that was only four years ago, before I bought my first business, before I made my first piece of content, which, by the way, I had a net worth of hundreds of millions of dollars, when I started making content, I didn’t have any confidence or self belief in any of those things, despite even having high levels of self belief in other areas. But those other areas had small areas that were transferable, not but they weren’t fully transferable. And I think what happened was that the first thing I ever did in my life that really changed my life was losing a lot of weight and getting into shape and doing fitness and realizing that it was literally just boring. AF. It was nothing fancy, nothing special. Just like i Everyone asked me, like, how did you lose 100 pounds? Like, how much Carty did you have to do? None. I just walked. I walked, I lifted weights, and I just ate moderately, like it was just the boring stuff. And so when I look at all the other areas of life now, I use that as like an anchor to get into anything else. Like I remember I was like, I can lose 100 pounds. I can learn how to start a business. It’s like, okay, now if I can learn how to start a business, I can learn how to start a different kind of business. If I can learn how to start three businesses. I can learn how to buy a business like it just stacked in terms of, like, I had evidence to pull on that I had done something before, but every time I got into the same situation, like I got in front of a camera to make content or I, you know, was like, I’m gonna buy this business. I’m gonna do diligence, I’m gonna hire this person that’s millions of dollars a year. Whatever it was, I didn’t have belief in that area. I could recall things that I’d done before and be like, you’re the type of person who can do hard things, the type of person who can build self belief. But I didn’t have belief in those areas. I never felt like I was ready. I was always terrified. It’s always the kind of thing where you’re like, not sleeping well the night before, you feel sick whatever. Like, I tell people all the time, like, I still get a stomach ache about these things, like I am a human and so I think that it’s now I’m at the point where I’m like, Okay, I understand how this goes, which is, like, the price that you pay for your dreams is discomfort today, but like, you don’t get the dreams tomorrow unless you pay the price of discomfort today, which is doing something when you don’t feel ready. Like, what is discomfort? If you really, like, think about it, right? I’m like, discomfort is doing something before you feel ready. Like, if we really boil it down, that is, most the time, what that actually is. It’s the anticipatory anxiety of, I don’t know how this is going to turn out, because I’ve never done it before, and so I think about that a lot, because I anchored so much to that before I started my business. Like, if I can lose 100 pounds, I can do this, like I did lost 100 pounds. I placed second to Bikini competition, by the way, almost passed out on stage because I was so nervous. But I did it, and I was like, if I can do that, I can start a business. And I think for a lot of people, they believe that in order to do the thing, you have to feel like you’re ready for the thing. You have to have these prerequisites checked off and all these things. It’s like, I joke with people when they’re like, Hey, what should I study? What course should I take to learn business? I’m like, you just fucking get in there and do it. Like, I don’t know what else to say. Like, you’ve got to get in the arena and actually start. People ask me, like, how do you learn about business? And I’m not they’re like, are you just gate gatekeeping? Like you’re not talking about books you read. And I’m like, I have read like, six very good books on business. And outside of that. Everything comes from just trying stuff and not being afraid to fail.

Gabrielle Lyon 08:23

But you become less comfortable. Less Do you experience less discomfort? Because now you’re Yeah, because now you’re seasoned at now you’re Oh, I know what to expect. I think that. I’ll say I think

Leila Hormozi 08:36

there’s global discomfort and local discomfort. My general level of anxiety has gone down over time because I’ve taught myself how to manage those situations, and I’ve proven to myself that I can confront those situations. My localized anxiety to like, right when I’m going to step on a stage with 10,000 people or 15,000 people, is still there, but I don’t have anxiety about my anxiety anymore. It’s not exactly, I think in the beginning you have anxiety about even having the anxiety, and over time, I think what’s happened is that I don’t have anxiety over the feeling of anxiety. I understand that I’m willing to pay that price to get the life I want. And that price is usually just like a feeling in my body that just I don’t love having, but I understand I need to have in order to get what I want.

Gabrielle Lyon 09:19

Does that make sense? It does. And most people think about where they want to go. Did you think about where you wanted to go?

Leila Hormozi 09:27

I’ve always thought about the person I want to be. I haven’t thought as much. I know it sounds cheesy, but like I haven’t thought as much about where I want to go more than I’ve thought Who do I want to be, and then what roads could take me there. And I think I’m flexible in terms of, like what the road looks like, but I’m really fixated on, like what I want myself to look like, and it’s just constant improvement in every area, like, mostly around my character.

Gabrielle Lyon 09:52

Tell me about that. What do you mean

Leila Hormozi 09:56

when I think about so I’ll give you an example. Like, I think that early in my. Life, like when I started losing weight and stuff, I was like, I want to be more resilient. I want to be grittier, I want to be tougher. I want to be strong, I want to be disciplined. And I got really good at that. But there’s another side to who I want to be, that it started to atrophy because I worked so hard on this, which was like, I want to still be able to be empathetic and kind and funny and caring and supportive. And so in the last 1824, months, I’ve said, I think I’m good enough over here, but the version of myself that I see and who I want to be in this world that I think can give the most to the most amount of people has this just as strong as this. And so I’ve said, Okay, how do I train this muscle instead of this muscle? And so what I read, how I work conversations, I have my intentions. I said every day are focused on that rather than this, because I’m like, this is now almost automatic. I can do that in my sleep. It’s not hard for me to go hard, but it is harder for me to learn to slow down, to stop, to be compassionate, to be empathetic, to listen, to be present. And I’m getting a lot better at it, but it’s like, it all came from, like I looked at, you know, who is Layla when she’s, you know, I think about when I’m like, 65 years old, and someone’s interviewing me, which 65 is not super old, but like, it’s, right, it’s still like 30 years above where I am right now, right? And so I was, like, she’s a lot softer than you are right now. That was like, two years ago that I had that I had that kind of, like, check in with myself, and so I think it just all anchors around, like, who you want to be and what do you want to be known for? Like, I think about, like, When I die, what do I want people to say about me?

Gabrielle Lyon 11:32

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Leila Hormozi 12:58

know if there was one moment, but I think there were, like, lots of little moments leading up. Like, I think it’s really easy to get caught up in wanting to win. And I made this podcast about, like, you want to be really careful what people applaud you for, because it’s like, people tell us we’re really good at something. They applaud you for it. You get likes on Instagram. People tell you that you’re amazing at this thing, but if it’s not aligned with what you want to keep doing to get where you want to go, it’s really easy to get caught up in it, and you don’t even realize it. And I think that, especially with the culture that we have today, I think like when I first from being completely transparent, like when I first started making context, I’d done everything behind the scenes with my businesses prior, it wasn’t like, public facing. I started making content. People were like, yeah. Like, you know, it was like, the first like, I would say, like, in feedback I got was just like, from a lot more like, people that were like, Yeah, we love the discipline and the hard work. And look how hard she works. And like, I almost felt like I had to at that point, you know, maybe four years ago, show people that I had that in me, because I felt like I’m being honest. People didn’t know that I had the ability to work that hard, because I’m a woman, and I felt like I had to prove that I’m strong and that I’m disciplined and I’m all these things. And then I want to say it was probably about two and a half years ago that I was like, watching my own content, and I was like, I don’t even like her. And I was like, why don’t I like and I was like, I’ve gotten so hardened because I’m trying to prove something to people that I don’t care about, which is crazy based on the fact that I do not need to do this. I don’t need to work. I want to work. I want to do any of this, but like, I feel the need to prove that I’m capable of something that I already know I’m capable of. I’ve proven that to myself. And when that happened, I said, like, I want to go like, I almost had to say, like, I already know who I am. I’ve just leaned really far in one direction. And that was when I was, like, I. Want to not only get back in touch with more of this other side of myself, but also, like, I want that incorporated in everything. Like that was the point in time where, like, I had my team. I was like, listen, I make jokes and crack jokes. I’m, like, a fucking dad jokes, terrible, not even funny to a lot of people. But like, that’s what I understand about that. Yeah, I’m like, I want to show that. I want to show like me, you know, with my husband, I want to show behind the scenes. We start doing blogging. Because I was like, because I was like, I want people to see that, like, you can be successful and not just be these things. And I want to remind myself of that, because I don’t want to be an extreme person either one of these directions. I want to be me, which is both and in the middle and probably ever evolving Totally, yeah, we’re never stagnant, right? I mean, like, Are you the same person who were five years ago?

Gabrielle Lyon 15:44

No, yeah, not yesterday. Just depends on which side of the bed, yeah, I wake up on. I mean, you know, yeah, my kids are still sleeping with me, so they’re jujitsu ing me in the face all night. So you just wake up pretty cranky. That makes sense. But when you really started being forward facing, was there something that you were hoping for?

Leila Hormozi 16:01

I always just thought, like, when I started making content, it was not out of a need for the business. In fact, like my content doesn’t even loop back to my business. Like I don’t have, like, a funnel, like, of we were just talking about, actually, like, literally, before this, I was like, I don’t do shit right now. I we sold our first business, my husband and I, and that was about seven years after starting it. And I was like, What is something that I could see myself doing the rest of my life? And then I thought about what kind of impact I want to have on the world, and I said, Well, what would have to happen, what would have to change about me to have that impact? I was like, I can’t keep hiding. I think I need to get I need to be more public facing. And that was when I said, I want to get out there, because I think that I want to show people, especially at that point, you know, everyone on Instagram was just like, Oh, look at my Ferrari and my money and all my this. And this is like, look at my money, you know. And they’re like, Oh, let me show you how to build a business. And I’m like, what real business owners like, look at all the money I have. Like, nobody that I know that’s like, really good at business is like, let me show you much money is all over the place. It’s like, in fact, they’re probably the opposite, right? They’re the opposite. They’re like, I want nobody to see this, because I don’t want to have to deal with these lawsuits. I got enough shit on my plate. And I was like, it would be really cool if I could show be transparent in a way that inspires people, so that when it gets hard, they realize that that’s normal. And for people that want to be in business, but don’t relate to that very like, I would say, like ego driven, status driven, money driven, side that they can see, like you can have other motives and still succeed in business. And so it was just kind of all those things. I was thinking, like, I didn’t have somebody that I looked up to, especially a female, when I was starting in business. And so, you know, I had a lot of everyone asked me, it’s all men that I looked up to. And I think also because on the other side, there were some females, but they didn’t talk about business. They just did business, but they didn’t talk about the same tactics or strategies that men did. And I was like, Well, I would love to learn from you, but like, I don’t know, come on. Chris Jenner, no, but like, you’re like, somebody, yeah. Like, talk about that, right? And so that inspired me to start making content in the first place. And then I think the first 18 months were just like, absolute dog shit. Like it was terrible. Like, people just said so many things about me. They were so mean. After I got past that first 18 months, then it really started to feel like relief, like there were so many people saying such mean stuff, and then,

Gabrielle Lyon 18:34

were you listening to it? Listening to it? You know, seeing it,

Leila Hormozi 18:39

um, I didn’t actively look for it. So I’m not that type of person. Like, I don’t search my name often or do any of that stuff. Like, I’ll do it like, I literally think I did this morning for the first time in like, three or four months. But I will see things, and people will message me or tag me, or I’ll have friends send me things, you know what I mean? Like, why do they do that? Don’t do that, guys, they do that to me too. It’s so weird, right? Yeah. The thing is, just like, it doesn’t rile me up, especially because of the stuff I went through in the beginning. But I’m just like, this is unnecessary. Like, I just don’t, I’m like, what kind of a troll? Like, I’ve never said a mean thing about anybody on the internet. I can’t, like, fathom having a life where you have time? Can you imagine having time? No, I just, I’m like,

Gabrielle Lyon 19:17

you have to. I can’t even find my socks. No, definitely, yeah.

Leila Hormozi 19:20

So it’s that and so, yeah, I think making the content and being public facing was like, How do I spread the message faster? And that’s what works for a lot of people right now.

Gabrielle Lyon 19:32

Why do you think there’s not that many women in positions to provide I don’t want to say value, but for example, to look up to, because I think that it’s almost across the board, yeah, even in the longevity space, or even in, you know, you know, my husband was in the Navy, and, you know, I think about our other seal friends, like Jocko and Johnny Kim and these guys that you. Yeah, you know, I would say a lot of the team guys also resonate. But what about women?

Leila Hormozi 20:04

It’s interesting because I’ve thought about that a few times. So here’s my theory on some of it, which is, like, women gain nothing from the opposite sex by showing how much money status they have. So like, a woman being like, I have girls that will come to I don’t understand, like, I have a good career. I’m making money. I’m like, oh, making my I’m like, girl, you don’t give but are you on Tinder, right? It’s like, he doesn’t really care that much about that. Like, I think that, like, I often think about it, like, what are we programmed biologically to do? And like, men, it’s like, if you have a lot of money and status and fame, women typically flock to you. I think for women, I’m not sure. I think that it might be intimidating to a degree for men. I mean, I don’t, you probably get this, but, like, I definitely met people who are get more shy because of it. And so one, I don’t know if it reinforces the pursuit of finding a partner. The second one is that I don’t think that. I think women have been socially conditioned not to advocate for themselves. So I don’t think that many women, at least, I think about myself. It wasn’t like, you’re not really taught to speak up, you know, I think now the narrative has changed, but I think a lot of people that’s still, like, programmed is like, less self advocacy. And in the advocacy that did exist, it was like, you know, I think about like, when I was in middle school or high school, it’s like, okay to, like, look good, not to use your brains. And then I would say, like, the third piece being, I have, there are a decent amount of like, I would say, studies to support that, like a lot of women have, there’s a lot of female business owners, but there’s not a ton that have. There’s not still as many out there speaking up who have larger businesses, which might be, again, because they have kids and they want privacy, or, like, I think about that, like, maybe that’s the reason why. But like, when I look at the women out there that are teaching business, it’s like, often smaller, so it doesn’t get as much reach. Because if you think about anybody in a place of authority, if you want to get reach, you have to have a lot of credibility. Where’s credibility Where’s credibility and business come from having a bigger business with more money. So I think about those three things as, like, the reason why there’s probably not as many and then I think that there’s just a natural like, just being completely honest, how the are you supposed to have a business, make content, have kids, have a husband, be it like that is fucking hard. So there’s just a constraint of time where it’s called, you sacrifice sleep, right? Lots of sleep, 100% it’s like, I mean, I don’t wanna do that. So it’s like, I think about people that have kids, have a business, have a relationship, have friends, and now I’m gonna make content about too it’s like, they had something has to give you can’t be everything to everybody. And so I think that it’s difficult for a lot of women, the ones I’ve spoken to that are like, very legitimate in business. They’re like, I just

Gabrielle Lyon 22:42

don’t have time. So how do we determine business legitimacy? I mean,

Leila Hormozi 22:47

I think about anybody in business. I think about like, being legit in business would be like, the, I mean, I’m not saying I find this, but like, I would say, like, the quality and quantity, meaning, like, the, if you were to test a business and say, like, how is it legit? It makes a lot of money, grows a lot, and people say good things about it, customers and employees. And I would say, if you have those three things and like, you’d be like, That’s a legit business. I think that if you have a business where people say good things, both internally and externally, but it’s small, it’s like, you have credibility with small businesses, not large businesses. If you have a big business that has lots of money, et cetera, but nobody says good things about it. You have credibility with scammers. So that’s how I think about it.

Gabrielle Lyon 23:28

That’s helpful, because I think a lot of people listening. So my audience is, you know, they’re really interested in evolving, yeah? And even though the entry point is medicine, yeah, we really bring on the best of the best in all of their domains. And I think one of the big challenges is, you know, in our content, for example, a lot of the scientists that are out there are men, there are some women, but it is not easy to get them to come on, easy to get them to be forward facing. And it just, it’s confusing, because I think there’s so much to gain from a sisterhood. You know, right before this, we called one of my best friends, Emily for Sala. Emily, love you, probably not listening to this podcast, but whatever. And there is something special in women supporting other women. But you know who you see that mostly in the guys. I think the bros, they are, like, there to support each other versus the women. It’s more, at least from what I see, more like crabs in the barrel.

Leila Hormozi 24:23

Yeah, that’s interesting. I do think that there’s like, if you think about competition amongst the sexes, it’s like, I think men are like, they fight with their fists. Women manipulative. So it’s like, I think when I speak to other women, they’re like, oh, it’s hard to find people I can trust. That’s always like, the do I trust women? And I’m like, I look out the same way as hiring people. It’s like, well, if you let one person burn you, you’re never going to have a team. If you let one friend burn you, it’s like, you’re never gonna have friends.

Gabrielle Lyon 24:51

So how do you evaluate trust? Or how do you you know you probably have a lot of people coming to you for a lot of different things. I.

Leila Hormozi 25:00

Think that trust is, I think like, if I were to say, How do I know I can trust somebody, it usually comes from being able to predict their behavior over a long enough time. So I think that the difficulty with trust is that it just takes time. Everyone says they’re like, trust just takes time. Why does it take time? Because if you want to understand somebody and be able to predict their behavior, which makes you feel safe. You have to have had enough time spent around that person or exposed to that person to understand I know I read a study once on that it takes about 80 hours to form a real friendship with somebody. I was like, Well, why is that? I think it’s because in order to really trust someone, you have to just see how their behavior plays out over time. So I think about that with people,

Gabrielle Lyon 25:41

do you find you’re more guarded now than you were in the beginning of business?

Leila Hormozi 25:51

Oddly, no, because I think I was so guarded then, like, I wouldn’t even be able to, like, be myself talking to you right now, like I would be so self conscious. I think I was very insecure, like me 10 years ago, so insecure.

Gabrielle Lyon 26:08

I think it’s, I think that’s, you know, part of age, right? We I all go through that, I suppose. And then with the

Leila Hormozi 26:15

insecurity is like, well, if I can’t trust this person, will I be able to amend the situation? Can I take care of myself? I could think it was I trust myself more now, the more I trust myself, I can trust other people.

Gabrielle Lyon 26:26

Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Yeah. What do you think people get wrong in business, in life, relationships? Are they different? It’s

Leila Hormozi 26:38

interesting because, like, I think I definitely feel about instead of like wrong. I think there’s trade offs, but I think that there are universal patterns that people try to defy. I would say that one of those would be like, if I could give anybody like, the biggest thing I’ve learned in my lifetime, which I got to learn by like, a very young age, is like, money does not make you happy. Success does not make you happy. I think that people conflate happiness and success, and there’s such different things. I can feel super happy when I’m not super successful, like I can tell you, because in business, you have good and bad years. Some of my happiest years have been the ones I’ve been the least successful in business, probably also not a coincidence. And I think that, you know, it’s funny, because I remember somebody told me when I was like, 21 and I was like, Listen, I’m not gonna be if I was like, What do I do with my life? Right? And I was like, they’re Had you already sold your business at this point. I was No, not at that point. This was when I was 21 so I was young, and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. And somebody was like, you could go into physical therapy and you could make $85,000 in year one, and I was just like, that’s too slow. And they were like, listen, money isn’t gonna make you happy. And I remember literally being like, I’d rather find out for myself.

Gabrielle Lyon 27:51

Like, yes, it will Yeah, find out.

Leila Hormozi 27:55

And I didn’t, you know, I say that half heartedly, but like, they’re just different skills. And I think that a lot of times in life, people think that if people think that if they succeed more, they’re going to be happier, and that’s just not the case. And I think that, I think that there’s feeling content, there’s feeling confident, there’s having respect for yourself, there’s trusting yourself. Those are all and those can help with happiness, like having a solid foundation of, like, feeling like you’ve got your back, but I don’t think that the two are related. And I think I know a lot of people who I do not want to be like that are very successful, like, wildly successful, like most successful in the world, and they are so miserable, yeah, and I’ve just told myself, I’m like, I’m just not willing to compromise my quality of life to succeed like I’m just, I just don’t want to do that. And I think it was like two years ago I really started thinking about that. I was like, I know my personality. I know myself. I can be very obsessed and fixated and not do these other things that make my life good and build connection and relationships and stuff. Have you always valued that relationship, connection always have. Doesn’t mean I always prioritized it. Like I went through a period in the beginning of my first business where I said, the only thing that matters is this. And it was because, like you know me and Alex, my partner, husband, we put all our money into it. We had no money. We lost all of our money, like we were broke. And I was like, I don’t give a about anybody else. I need to make money. Otherwise I don’t have what am I gonna do? I’m not gonna, like, go back. Like, that would suck. And so I just said, like, I don’t really care about friendships. I don’t really care about seeing my family right now. I don’t care about anything. Like, I need to make this work. And so for that, there was like, a three period, three year period, where we literally sat and people would be like, Hey, do you want to go to dinner? To go to dinner? Me and Alex said the same thing. People, we’d be like, we don’t do dinner. And they were like, why? And we’re like, we just don’t do friends right now. And it was like, Oh, I remember saying, My gosh, and then being like, what? I was like, I just don’t even know how to do that. And it was because, honestly, like, in the beginning of my business, I was so scared. A fucking up and scared of I felt so much responsibility. You know, by the time I was 23 I had 100 employees. And I’m like, I can’t really manage somebody before that’s bananas, yeah? And then I’m like, I gotta figure this out. So it’s like, every waking moment, all I wanted to do was figure that out, because I took it really seriously. I’m like, listen, all these people paid me all this

Gabrielle Lyon 30:18

money to deliver these products. 23 years old. Yeah? How, how do you even go through that that’s so accelerated, you know? I mean, you grow up in, yeah, business, yeah.

Leila Hormozi 30:32

It was, like, the wildest few years of my life, honestly, I think. But the interesting thing is, like, you asked me about fitness in the beginning, like I anchored so much to that when I was going through it, because it’s like, you’re going through an identity shift. You’re changing your lifestyle, you’re learning a completely new skill. It’s what you think about all day. Other people see it, and they’re talking about it like it’s, it’s a giant life shift. And so, yeah, yeah. It was really, really hard for me, but I also gained so many skills, like I wouldn’t have traded it for the world, like the person I was able to become, and how much confidence I got as an output of all the things that I did, I think it was such a gift. Yeah?

Gabrielle Lyon 31:18

Makes me think a lot about a lot of sacrifice. Yeah, you know, I did my fellowship in geriatrics and Nutritional Sciences, and I got to tell you what I didn’t want to I mean, I was rounding on nursing homes. You’re going, you’re seeing 30 patients that are going to die a day. And it just was not what I signed up for, yeah, but I did it so I could do Nutritional Sciences, and I just thought, man, just one more day, one more day until the time is complete, and the sacrifice seems to be transformative, and it’s who’s willing to sacrifice to be able to move forward?

Leila Hormozi 31:56

Yeah, I agree with that. I think I’m so careful to talk about sacrifice, because

Leila Hormozi 32:06

people are like, Oh my God, what are you gonna do? Sacrifice your whole life for this thing? And I think what you just said is exactly what I tell people, which is, it’s not forever, but in every season, it’s like you think about life as like a wheel. You probably see this with people with help. It’s like you have to there’s the constraint. What’s the constraint of your life? Right? And then to move forward in that area, that constraint, you almost have to put the rest on autopilot. Say, I’m going to sacrifice growing these other areas to grow this one area. Raise the thermometer, like the set level there, and then I’ll probably move to the next one. I think about that, because, like a lot of entrepreneurs you meet with, I’m sure it’s like, they’ve done the business, they’ve maxed out, but it’s like, now the constraint of even their business is their help, because they always function properly, because they don’t have their help always. And that’s, I mean, you see, it’s like, even think about like Brian Johnson, right? It’s like he went and did all the business. Then he’s like, Dude, my health sucks. It’s like, it’s such a common thing. So I think about it like you’re sacrificing right now. This doesn’t mean forever, and I think that’s really important context for people, because if you tell somebody like forever, you’re gonna have to put this much mental energy into this thing, it sounds very overwhelming, and they say, I don’t want to do that. I’m not going to make that sacrifice. But if you said, what if you only had to do it for 14 months, and then it’s going to become normal, you’re going to have built habits. It’s going to feel automatic, and you’re able to think about other things that have headspace.

Gabrielle Lyon 33:21

Let’s talk about something I see consistently in my practice, women who train hard but wake up exhausted the next day. You’re hitting your workouts, eating your protein, but you’re still sore four days, still dragging through your afternoon, feeling like you can’t recover fast enough to stay consistent. Listen, recovery isn’t just about rest, it’s about giving your muscles the specific nutrients it needs at the right times. And that’s why I love body health products, one of the sponsors of this episode, the most important nutrients are the essential amino acids, which the body can’t make. They play a critical role in the repair and recovery of your muscles. The challenge getting enough essential amino acids usually means you need to eat more protein than you are right now and at the right time to optimize recovery. I know on busy days, I struggle to eat enough protein and let alone enough calories. The idea of one more chicken breast, no makes me want to vomit, but I still need those amino acids, and that’s why I started using body Health’s perfect amino no more chicken breast. Hey, no problem. It delivers the essential amino acids you need, but in a low calorie format, I take it with smaller meals, and especially on training days when I need the extra support. Recovery is where transformation happens. Make sure you’re giving your body what it actually needs. Go to body health.com and use the code lion 20 to get 20% off your first order. That’s body health.com and use the code lion 20. Yeah. That’s actually a really good. Point, because things are hard in the beginning, and then after two years, you level up. And it’s not even though the original feeling of sacrifice, yeah, it it evolves 100%

Leila Hormozi 35:14

and I think it’s the it’s almost like the mental energy of these things, more than it is even the time. It’s like, when you know it’s a problem and you’re trying to fix it and you’re sacrificing these things, like, it takes a lot of mental bandwidth, so it’s one thing that I think about a lot. But I mean, you know, like, I talk to people and they’re like, you know, I want to follow in your path and I want to do what you did. And I’m like, Okay, well, then you’d have to sacrifice what I did, which, like, I’m not even able to tell you if that was the right trade off or not. I don’t know. Because I can’t have lived my other life that I could have had, like, I didn’t have kids when I was young, and now, if I want to have kids, like, it’s gonna be a lot harder, you know, because I’m older now, and that’s a real sacrifice. I could work the rest of my life. I can’t have kids the rest of my life. And I tell women now and then I talk to them like, that’s a real thing that I kind of wish somebody had said to me, because if they were like, hey, just do it now and get it over with. Then you, you know, whatever, it’s like, I might have done that. Maybe it would have worked out better. I don’t know, but

Gabrielle Lyon 36:06

I have to, if you want to borrow them, you might change your mind real fast.

Leila Hormozi 36:10

You’re like, No, you’re good. You got out, yeah.

Gabrielle Lyon 36:14

But as the years go on and you’ve achieved all this success, the same stressors, they don’t exist in the same way, right? Is that fair to say?

Leila Hormozi 36:24

Yeah, no, no, no, I don’t think so. I think it just is a new level. You get to another level, and then you have a new stressor of something different for the most part, but you have more skills to pull from.

Gabrielle Lyon 36:33

How long do you think those levels last? Two years, five years. You know what I’m talking about. Yeah, I do you know you seem to jump or everybody, not you in particular, but there’s the beginner phase, and then there’s the next business or the next accomplishment.

Leila Hormozi 36:50

I think it’s more about exposure than it is time. And I think I say that because of my first experience with business growing so quickly. Like, if people are like, what’s the level? It’s like, Okay, maybe right now the level is like, yeah, like, you have to get over, like, fear of public speaking and being in camera and whatever. Okay. Well, if you speak once every two weeks, it’s gonna take you two years to get to the next level. But if you speak every day, every other day, once a week, it’s like, if you expose yourself to it more, I think that you can get to the next level faster. It’s like, whenever I find something in my life that I realize it’s stressing me out. I’m like, How can I stress myself out more?

Gabrielle Lyon 37:25

That’s Wait. You have to pause there, because that’s really good advice. That’s really good advice. Yeah, I’ll take it. Increase cortisol, yes, yeah, no, just kidding. But everybody thinks self care is leaning into the softer thing in that way it’s not no. So say that again, because I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone verbalize that. It’s hard

Leila Hormozi 37:47

to, yeah, I don’t verbalize it because it sounds bad when it comes out, but, like, you have to stress yourself out more in the short term to get to the other side faster. So, like, something I talk about a lot of people, I had, like, a quote that went viral is like, fear is a mile wide, an inch deep. It’s like, the moment you step into the thing that’s been freaking you out, stressing you out, etc, it gets easier. You realize it was it’s not an ocean, it’s a puddle. And it’s like, Okay, I’ve just kind of, like, jumped through the puddle a little bit to get to the other side. But it’s that most people have one experience, and then they say, Oh, I don’t want to touch that. And then they’re like, ah. And it becomes this thing in their life that, like, they have to circumvent around everything they do, from this thing that they’re scared of or that stresses them out, when, in reality, if you had said, I’m going to do this thing actually, I’m going to actually, every day for two weeks expose myself to this thing that stresses me out. By the end of two weeks, not only will you most likely not be stressed about it, you might actually like it, you know, I mean, I think about that, I’m like, I used to be so, so stressed. I remember, like, I made a podcast cover, I made a YouTube channel, I did all these things I’d get in front of the camera. I was like, you know, and like, mind you, I would speak in front of 100 employees I had live with, like, no scripting, and loved it. But like, I’d be in front of the camera, be like, like, my armpits are running, yeah, yeah. And, and then I realized, I was like, Okay, I’m gonna commit to doing this content thing, and I’m gonna do every week, this many times a week, and I’m not, I’m just gonna commit to, I’m not gonna stop. And it’s like, I got over the initial hump so quickly. The more I did it. Like, I remember I did in one quarter I did, like, I can’t remember how many speaking engagements it was. I’d never do them anymore, right? Because, one, they don’t stress me out anymore. Two, I don’t like traveling that much, so I don’t like doing it. But, like, I did so many in that quarter. And I remember by the end of the quarter, I was like, Oh, I like doing this. How could you keep doing this? And I was like, Oh, wait, no, that’s too easy. Yeah. And then I was like, wow, I took something that I was so scared of, that’s caused so much stress in my life, and now I actually like, like it. So I think it’s just like it is so much easier to condition ourselves than we think. It’s almost like, I mean, you probably see this in medicine, but it’s like someone’s intolerant to a food start with a tablespoon every day for a week, and then two tablespoons, then three, then all of a sudden, something that you were intolerant to, now you like, completely fine with, and you actually crave. Yeah, it’s like, I’ve had that with foods as well. So it’s like, I think about the same with anything in life. It’s just, um, I think the hardest part is the first step, because we all want to not feel the stress or the fear or the anxiety in order to take that first step, we’re like, no, no, I have to solve the feeling before I go do the thing. But it’s,

Gabrielle Lyon 40:19

you know, that doesn’t know that doesn’t work. No, yeah, I think that’s, I mean, that’s really wise advice. I hope people really hear that. And the other thing is, we don’t hear that a lot from women, and whether it’s a man or a woman doesn’t really matter. But I do think that there is something to be said for that, to lean into the harder thing. Yeah. You know, there’s this idea of stoicism, right? Yeah. And, you know, when I think about stoicism, they got a lot, right? It’s very neutral, but the part they missed is kind of the connection and being able to feel and be together with family. And, yeah, what is, you know, it’s not just all about, you know, go hard or go home. Yeah, that’s tough. I think that, well, I’ll speak freely.

Leila Hormozi 41:12

I think that a lot of women, at least, like, what I have thrown up in is like, we have to prove ourselves to be, like we are strong and we are, we are. We can do it too, right? That was like a slogan, however long ago. Like, what was it like? Anything a man can do I can do better. Is that it? Yeah, but there are things like that leans you very far in this one direction. And I think it’s we’re at this weird point right now. At least I see it in, like, the very few times I’m on social media. And often people just ask me about these things. It’s like, you’ve got women that are super hard ball super hard, boss babe, women that are super hard, like Trad wife, right? That’s what they call it. What is it called? Trad wife? Trad wife, traditional wife. I gotta get one of those. I was like, I want one of those. And it’s, it’s almost like this. And I think it’s not just, it’s probably not just for women. It’s probably for men too. But I think they have less social they’re not really acceptable, of being super soft in society as much. But I think stoicism also became cool in the last decade, because it also goes in that direction. But there’s so many things that I think like we are naturally inclined to do and do as women that help this side that come from this side, like, if we can learn to foster relationships, connect with people, have empathy, listen, support people, encourage people like, create safe spaces for people like, it can’t supercharge this other side, but I feel like at least so many women I speak to, it’s like they’re now so afraid to show this side of themselves, because they feel like Now what’s cool is to just be like, this complete, that’s like, stoic and doesn’t cry and has no emotion, and this and that. So it’s really interesting to see all that. Yeah, I think it takes a toll on people, because it’s like, you’re trying to be one or the other. It’s like, just be yourself, which is like, humans are dynamic creatures, and

Gabrielle Lyon 42:55

we change all the time. Yeah, the social media thing is really tough, yeah, because it shows the side of human human nature, but I think it also brings out the worst in people.

Leila Hormozi 43:04

Yeah, well, you probably see it a lot too, especially like in health. I feel like that’s yes, so polarizing. Yes, I mean, but like, You, you, you know, I see you post, and you’re like, you’re working out, you’re pushing heavy weights, but then you’ve got your kids with you, and you’re like, Come on buddy, let me wipe your butt. Yeah, exactly. And it’s like, you know, figuring that out has, I’m sure, not been easy for you, because it’s like a different energy at times that you have to bring to the situation.

Gabrielle Lyon 43:29

Yeah, I don’t know. I, I try to be as, at least for me, as transparent as possible. What people, most people, don’t know is that I’m actually hilarious, yeah, but yeah, just has family. I try to be as transparent as possible, but also I’m not on social media. I’ll I have a great team that helps me. So that way, I’m not thinking about what I should be doing. I’m just very much this is what you see, is what you get. I swear, a lot more than I do on camera or on my podcast. That is true, and I’m not nearly as good of a cook, but other than that, I try to be as because then it feels very inauthentic, and I you wouldn’t want to do it well, but I feel as if there’s two reasons why people do things, and maybe this is too much of a black and white statement, but either it’s really in the service of others, yeah, or it’s in the service of themselves, and there’s probably this bi directional relationship, because when I am doing and being of service, it makes me feel better, yeah? But the primary goal isn’t for it to be about me, and it never has been. And my husband is the same way. He is a, you know, he’s a veteran. He’s a surgical resident working 100 hours a week. It’s about being of service. And so then the other side is it’s about me, me, me. And then I think that that the social media landscape. It doesn’t differentiate between the two. We don’t we don’t know not. I think that part is challenging.

Leila Hormozi 45:05

Yeah, that is true. And you can’t really tell on social media much. I mean, like, I’ve met so many people that then I see the social media. I’m like, I meet them in real life. I’m like, Okay, you’re awesome, or I’ll see them in on social media. And I’m like, Oh, they seem amazing. I meet them like, Oh, my God, you’re awful. You know, it’s so hard, yeah, to know anything nowadays. And I mean, I feel grateful I didn’t grow up like, you know, glued to a screen, that would be tough. But, yeah, do you limit your time on social media and try to

Speaker 1 45:34

have more in person interactions?

Leila Hormozi 45:38

I actually feel like, because we have, like, this office and all these people, like, I actually try to get on social media. I have to try to get on it, which I actually like, because I like, if I looked at my phone usage, like, the what I am glued to on my screen is my slack for sure. Like, we use Slack to communicate with the team. Like, it’s like the most hours on my phone used.

Gabrielle Lyon 45:57

So if you guys are not on there, you’re totally fired. Yeah, everyone’s on Slack, for sure.

Leila Hormozi 46:03

So I haven’t had a hard time with the social media usage, but I see it in, like, almost every but that’s like a forcing function, like, I’m sure, if I was not in the office doing things,

Gabrielle Lyon 46:15

how would you be spending your time reading? What are you reading? I love that cooking.

Leila Hormozi 46:23

Yeah, I like doing those three things for sure. What kind of stuff do you read? I read a lot more about psychology, human behavior, like that’s pretty much all I read, actually, anything recently, good, interesting. Um, no, I think I’ve, I’ve been interested in this, like reading more about the evolution of men and women, and like how we’ve gotten to kind of where we are today, because I see so much about it. And like culture, so people call it right? And I think it’s really interesting, because I, like you said something earlier, where it’s like, you feel responsible to a degree to do like I feel responsible as a woman in business who has a brand to understand if my influence is positively or negatively affecting people, and like that actually will keep me up at night, and so understanding how I’ve gotten to where I am, and then what’s happening in culture right now? Like, I see a lot of people unhappy because they’re single, like, so many people are single now. And, like, I think about that, like, I don’t understand. Like, when I was dating, it was like, it was just different. It wasn’t this, like, nobody can find a mate thing, yeah. And that seems,

Gabrielle Lyon 47:38

do we know that to be true? I mean, is that what the statistics say that people are struggling, or is it maybe the people that you’re exposed to that are in business wanting to do

Leila Hormozi 47:46

other things interesting? That is, like, I’ve seen it both one way or the other, which is, like, you know, I’ve seen stats saying that the birth rates are declining, then you see stats say they’re going up. I don’t know, but I do hear a lot of it. I have so many women that reach out to me and they’re like, I cannot find a man. I don’t understand why I have so many men that reach out to me. They’re like, how do I find a wife like you? Like, literally, those are the questions I get. And so I’m like, What is going on? And literally, I’ll do it. Ask me anything like, why are people asking me about this? But it’s probably because I’m married. And in business, have you guys been married

Gabrielle Lyon 48:17

almost 10 years? Okay, do you think there’s something special to do to maintain a relationship with two extremely high achievers.

Leila Hormozi 48:34

Yeah, it’s hard. It took a ton of work in the beginning, and as you change as people, it takes a ton of work as you change, like, I even think in the last two, three years, like, we’ve definitely both changed laws people, and we, like, joke about how this is, like, our second marriage with each other. Like, literally, recently, it’s like a thing. And so it takes, like, almost like, when we’ve been going on dates, I’m like, literally, look at my husband, and I’m like, he’s a new person now. Like, I have to, like, go in with, like, ask him questions, as you would if you didn’t know this person, because people change, and you just make assumptions. And I also don’t want to be the reason that anyone I’m with remains the same as they are, rather than growing into who they want to be. And I think you can keep people there with what you reinforce, how you label them, how you treat them, because of things they wanted, that they used to want to be. And I think in order to keep a marriage, I mean, like, you can probably relate to this, like, you have to keep one. I think it’s really hard if you both don’t grow, like, if you both aren’t growing, that’s, that’s hard because that what is there to talk about. The second piece is that I think you have to be curious enough to get to know the person all over again when they are changing, and then say, Great. Now let’s talk about, how do we be married after that? Say, say it to this new version of each other. I mean, have what have you experienced with

Gabrielle Lyon 49:54

your husband? So, you know, my husband is a little bit of a. Enigma. He’s actually they’re probably pretty similar, yeah. So he was a seal for 10 years, yeah. And while he was deployed, he taught himself physics and calculus at war to then come back and teach trauma to Special Warfare. Wow. And then went to medical school, and now he’s a surgical resident. The joke is, he went from working with dicks to now treating because he’s a urologist, which is so funny, but he is a professional teammate, so he’s all about the team. Oh, yeah, that makes a ton of sense. He’s always like, what are you doing? Wanna hang out. What are you doing? I’m like, I already spent an entire day with go and so it’s really cute, but I will say I was thinking about what you were saying in terms of the beginning of business. She’s working 100 hours a week. The responsibility of the family, yeah, is 100% on me. I run the businesses. I take care of the kids. I do not outsource all my childcare. Yeah, I have part time help. By design, I’m taking care of all of it. So the challenge is, you know, from my perspective, just speaking also freely, my husband does listen to this podcast. Hi, honey. I’m sorry what I’m about to say, resentment can build up. He is working, and I promised very early on that I was going to support the family and him. He served our country, put his life in danger to protect us. He can do whatever he wants. Yeah, and that. And as I made that promise, we’re now 4567, years later. Yeah, of him working these hours, at least he’s not deployed, but it’s a lot of responsibility when you’re like, Hey, can you please pick up the kids? I’ve picked up the kids for the last five months straight. Can you do it? Yeah. I mean, it’s not possible because He’s in surgery or doing whatever he’s doing, sleeping in his car, which is probably the joke about getting a wife. Yeah, totally. I’ll take one. Hey, if you guys are looking, you can apply.

Leila Hormozi 51:55

Yeah. I mean, I get it, because even when, when me and Alex had together, we don’t have kids. But, you know, we looked at like the house responsibilities. And he was just like, these things are not important to me. Like, I just honestly don’t do like when we met, he didn’t do anything. He would not do laundry to a degree. He would buy new clothes when they were turning out. Must have smelled really wrong. Yeah, so and so I said. I was like, listen, I just want to make this easy. I will do take care of all house stuff. That doesn’t mean I will be doing it, but I will take care of it, and I will also take care of all the food stuff, and it’s been 10 years, and, like, there, I mean, we’ll get to points where I’m like, listen, I can’t cook, like, I’m not cooking anymore. And then, you know, then I go back. Because, like, I love cooking, I love baking, but not when I’m, like,

Gabrielle Lyon 52:37

so busy, and that’s the problem, right? As you’re growing a business, your stress increases. What worked in a relationship early on, you know, I made these commitments. I’m gonna take care of everything. Now I’m gonna release my second book. I have a third book coming out, which I’m, you know, interviewing you for, which is all about women and I wasn’t the same person. The stresses weren’t the same, the responsibilities This episode is brought to you by Bon charge. Now, my husband looked at me the other night and said, Should I be scared? And honestly, fair, I was sitting in the dark with a glowing red mask strapped to my face. I don’t have time for a 5 million step skin routine. I just don’t but I do have 10 minutes while I’m answering emails or pretending to read before I pass out the bond charge red light. Face Mask uses red light and near infrared wavelengths to support skin health, which, again, it’s a great way to scare your husband. It’s lightweight and it’s portable. It doesn’t feel heavy or uncomfortable. Since I started using it consistently, my skin looks the following smoother and just overall, more healthy. I didn’t have to add another complicated thing in my life to get the job done. Go to bondcharge.com and use the code Dr lion to save 15% and listen, many of us make a ton of various investments, but skin care and something that works is an investment that you will not regret. Go to boncharge.com and use code Doctor line to save 15% Yeah, are not the same. And so there’s this kind of dance where you get more skills, like you said, but also you have to be able to look at yourself and then evolve those parts. If that makes any sense

Leila Hormozi 54:30

whatsoever, oh, it’s almost like you have to renegotiate the terms of the relationship. That’s right. I mean, it’s like a business. It’s like, listen, we both your partners, and I look at it like because we have the conversation. I’m like, listen, every time we’ve had one of these, it’s like we’re these, it’s like, we’re partners in business, we’re also partners in life.

Gabrielle Lyon 54:45

Like, I’m like, you negotiate our term. Like, dude, you broke so, right? You put in the sweat equity and I’ll put in the money. That’s terrible, but true.

Leila Hormozi 54:53

It’s funny, though, but I do think that that is like to be the premise of it. It’s like, and. Everyone goes into a relationship thinking like, this is how it’s, it’s, it is not, it’s not going to be that way forever. You will change so much. They will change so much, and and those things change. And like, I mean, I, I’ve been very honest with Alex, and I’ve been like, oh my god, I, I think that I cannot do this and do this. And he’s like, great. So like, let’s just talk about how, you know, and I think it’s being open with your partner about what you have to give, you know, and then, you know, it’s interesting for me is because, like, I recently was like, I actually miss doing some things like baking and cooking, etc, because, like, I actually went to culinary school. I wanted to do, I did and so amazing, yeah, so for me, it’s like a creative outlet, but then, so I’ll do it, and then, like, this is amazing. I’m like, don’t be it’s not an expectation, like, I just do it when I have time. It’s like, create, like, I literally can think freely when I’m doing those things. It’s like, your hands are busy. It’s a great time. And so it’s interesting, because, like, it changes so much throughout the relationship. I think, think people just expect now. I think a difficult part is like, now, especially with women having more responsibilities and expectations of themselves and dreams and goals than ever. You have to be more communicative with your partner, yeah, and we have to say, like, I do see a lot of women that I know and they’ve been like, why won’t he listen or talk to me like, I want him to just, like, be my emotional support almost. And I’m like, men for so long that has not been their, their value in a lot of, really, like, a lot of, there are plenty of men who are, but there’s also, like, what is innately, like, Absolutely, right? And so I’ve had to have these conversations. I’m like, he’s he’s not your girlfriend, yeah? And I literally had the conversation. I was like, that’s what you I talked to girls about those things. I talk to my girlfriends about those things. It’s like, but that I don’t expect to get that same level of connection with my husband when I’m talking about these things. And so I do feel lucky. I learned that early on, because I see that being a huge I would say, demand that women have on men right now, that I feel is some men have it to get

Gabrielle Lyon 57:01

for sure, and not the ones I know. So, okay, right? But, but I’m just some do. I’m like, Honey, I I’m really pissed. He’s like, you want to talk about I’m like, with you? Absolutely not. Yeah, no, I have no interest because, yeah, he’s gonna give me the one the same. He’s like, did you, no matter what I say, Yeah, his answer will be like, Well, did you break our family rule? What’s that? Well, I’m gonna say it, but team, you got to beat this out. It’s, are you being or don’t be? And then Rule number two is, Don’t get up. That’s funny. That’s it, don’t be. And you’re like, great, good talk. Anyway. I’m like, Honey, oh my god, I had to fire this person. And, you know, I don’t know what we’re gonna do and and I got to work on this book because they sent a deal in, and I’ve got to try to do this merger acquisition with the part of the business. And he’s like, Okay, well, did you break rule number one? And I’m like, Oh, my dad. He’s got him all in it. Like, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 57:55

I’m like, what he’s like, are you gonna I was like, oh

Gabrielle Lyon 57:59

my god, I’m never asking you, and then you’re so upset every time I’m like, hey dude, I don’t talk to you. I’m call someone else. Yeah, you just know. You’re like, this is not for you. Yeah, I already know what

Leila Hormozi 58:10

the answer is going to be, yeah. It’s funny. My husband, like, you want to talk about that like somebody else about this. Cool works for me. He’s good talk. Yeah?

Gabrielle Lyon 58:18

Good talk. So mine isn’t. He’s feelings are very hurt, but you know, he’ll evolve, and then he’ll be like, Honey, I want to talk to you about this thing. He’s like, this thing happened at work and I was operating I’m like, Uh huh, oh. Like, are you in a or what? He’s like, Yeah, I am good talk, because that’s why he wants you. I totally I’m like, I’m so glad that I just gave you what you needed. This is gonna work. This was so easy. Totally, totally, that’s great. What do you think people do wrong? So for the women, maybe not even so in the relationship, the one thing is, perhaps not having the expectation that they’re gonna be a girl, for which I totally agree with also, my husband smells way too bad to be a female. I’m like, Dude, what is that smell like? That is not he’s like, my laundry. Oh, my God. Well, like, did she wear deodorant today? Yeah, today we have to fumigate everything. Disgusting, yeah? So he runs to work, rain or shine, oh, and then doesn’t shower, and no, and his club, and then runs home, and the clothes are there. It’s disgusting. But, you know, when I think about the one thing, and I watch a video that you had put out, and it was what it was. I mean, I’ve watched a handful as I prepared for this, but there was this one. It was like, you know, this is the mistake that everyone is making. It was, you know, you don’t what was it deserve? Hold on. I have a note here, because this was the one thing that it was, oh, belief. What most people get wrong? Belief in themselves about belief?

Leila Hormozi 59:54

Yeah. Oh, the thing that most people get wrong about belief is that it is a self belief. Yeah? Yeah, is that it is a they think it’s an input, not an output. So they think in order to do something, I must have self belief, but you have to do the thing to have the self belief. So I think it’s like, everyone’s like, I’m not ready, I’m not confident, I’m not this, I’m not input, therefore I can’t, you know, do this thing, but it’s like, it’s not the input, it’s actually the output.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:00:24

What if you fail at it? What if, say, for example, you believe that you can run a business and not you, but maybe, and then you just can’t. Do you think Is that a possibility? Is failure? A possibility failure

Leila Hormozi 1:00:39

is data. I don’t understand I like, actually don’t like. I do not think failure is a bad thing. I think people have a bad relationship with failure. They look at it like it means something about them. They look at it like it’s a bad thing. Like, every time you fail, you are that much closer to success. Like, I really do believe that innately in my blood, like, there has been nothing that I have seated at that I have not

Gabrielle Lyon 1:00:59

failed at first. But how did you get good at that? The way that you are talking and thinking is very it’s just very well thought out. You know, it’s, it is. It’s a lot of introspection. I think it’s being able to be

Leila Hormozi 1:01:18

the scientist, not the judge. So it’s like the judge, the internal judge is like, you suck, you’re awful, you’re you failed. That’s because you were not good at this thing. You are bad at this you should do that like it’s constantly building a narrative around why this failure means something about you, whereas the scientist is like, let me look at all the conditions. Did we do this? Did we do that? Were we missing information. Did we do this piece wrong? Like it’s looking for the evidence to find out why the thing failed, not building a narrative around why you are the reason why it failed.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:01:52

Do you catch yourself in self talk? Do you think that that’s important? I do.

Leila Hormozi 1:01:59

I used to be really, really bad at it, like meaning I would be able to do things, but I did beat myself up a lot for them, and I think that over time, I’ve been able to catch myself so I don’t smart, beat myself up over things, and I practice like people think that You’re just going to have new thoughts. You have to practice belief. You have to practice new thoughts. It’s not just going to come innately. And so for me, it’s like, how do I practice this belief? I would do these things to reinforce the belief. I would say these things to reinforce the belief, like I for example. I’ll give you one example of that. I used to be really bad at saying no, and so I always thought that I was like a pushover. People got to walk all over me. I was like a door doormat, doorstep. And I finally started saying, Okay, what would I have to do, and how would I have to act to really believed that I was not a person that could be walked all over. Okay, well, I would say no more. I wouldn’t apologize for it. I wouldn’t over explain. And I remember when I started doing that, I’d be like, No, I can’t do that. It would feel so uncomfortable. But after doing it a few times, I was like, Wow, I’m the kind of person who says no. And now ask people, they’re probably like, Dude, she’s the queen of saying no, my husband’s like, you’ve been the opposite now, right? Because you reinforced this belief in the other way. But it wasn’t like the feelings and thoughts and belief was there before I did it. I just started doing it, and the action reinforced the thoughts and belief. And then eventually I started having the thoughts and beliefs like I am the type of person that is able to say no and hold my boundaries, but it came out of my mouth and and through my actions before it came into my

Gabrielle Lyon 1:03:46

head, and you just interpret the feeling differently. So when you say when you said no the first 100 times, probably not 114 Yeah, you’re like, oh God, can’t believe I did that. Yeah. And then maybe you wouldn’t have the feeling, or you didn’t respond the same way to that physical conversation, 100%

Leila Hormozi 1:04:07

I think that oftentimes it’s not that the discomfort, the anxiety, is ever going to go away, but we change our relationship to it. Do you think it doesn’t go away? I think some of it, I think you can train a lot of it out, but I think it’s not like anybody lives with zero anxiety or discomfort, you know? I mean, like there’s going to be a new stressors. Situation or something, right? And so I just think, like, I might now in a situation where I go to walk on stage, instead of being like, I’m so terrified, I’d be like, I’m so excited, I think I’ve changed my relationship. Like, there’s going to be adrenaline and cortisol, because there’s a huge room of people shouting, but I don’t look at it like, oh, it’s going to shut me down, and I’m going to, you know, fail, and look at it like it’s lighting me up. And I’m going to have more energy.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:04:42

Yeah, energy. So the butterflies are in attack formation. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. What is next on your radar?

Leila Hormozi 1:04:55

Expansion for my company? So I. Building a bigger footprint across the country is, like, super top of mind for me right now for 2026 in terms of how we’re going to expand as a company, I would say, second to that is, I have just hired, you know, six executives in the last quarter, and so my role is going to change, going to change, going to 2026, I’m going to, you know, up level and have, like, a completely new focus, just so I’m completely vision strategy, building out, like our operating model, with our hold Cohen operating companies, and then going with that, I would say, Like on a personal side, is leaning more into, I would say, skills that have atrophied as I built out, like, the very disciplined side of myself. I think I learned a lot about myself this year going through like, I mean, you know, I reached out to you. I was, like, dealing with health issues, and that has, I don’t need to learn a lesson twice.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:06:01

Smart, pretty smart.

Leila Hormozi 1:06:04

I recognize like, where I can put in systems now to make sure that I can keep going. And so for me, it’s about like, how do I stay in the game? How do I continue to build a life and do a thing that I love and not sacrifice my quality of life along the way? And so I’ve had a huge focus on health, on building more time and space into my schedule so that I can now do bigger things for the business that are more, I would say, like longer term thinking, because it requires that of me now. And I think those two things actually go hand today.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:06:33

It sounds like they do, yeah. Do you think, and I hear this a lot, people are always striving to make it. Do you feel like you’ve made it

Leila Hormozi 1:06:52

like yes and no? So I would say no from a business standpoint,

Leila Hormozi 1:07:01

from a personal standpoint, I don’t feel like I’ve made it, but I am really proud of how far I’ve come. Do you think you’ll ever feel like you’ve made it? No, I don’t think we ever do. I think we die feeling like we haven’t made it. I don’t think it goes away. And I think I try really hard now, as in my second business, I made this promise myself, I’m like, I’m gonna try really hard to acknowledge my accomplishments. And like, give myself a pat on the back, like you’re doing good. I I will continue to do what I do no matter what me being nicer to myself doesn’t make me go any less hard, but it does make it feel a lot better along the way.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:07:37

I can absolutely attest to that. When you have a family, do you think you’ll let your kids go into business?

Leila Hormozi 1:07:44

I would hope that they come into business and hopefully with me, I would love that.

Gabrielle Lyon 1:07:48

Listen, I’m hoping my kid becomes an astronaut, but I’ll stop going into business. Layla hermosi, thank you so much for coming on the show. Oh, thanks for having me. It was awesome. So fun.