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Jeremy Miner: The Mindset of a Top 1% Performer
Episode 173, duration 1 hr 13 mins
Episode 173
Jeremy Miner: The Mindset of a Top 1% Performer
In this powerful episode, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon sits down with legendary sales expert and entrepreneur Jeremy Miner to discuss the foundation of success. Jeremy, the founder of Seventh Level, reveals the mental frameworks, communication skills, and commitment required to achieve peak performance in any area of life.
Drawing from his own harrowing health scare and decades of experience coaching top performers, Jeremy shares candid insights into what separates the top 1% from everyone else. This conversation is not just about sales—it’s about the psychology of human connection, overcoming fear, and unlocking your full potential to build a more resilient and successful life.
Who is Jeremy Miner:
Jeremy Miner is an internationally recognized sales trainer and entrepreneur, best known as the founder of the sales training company 7th Level. He is the creator of the Neuro-Persuasion Sales Method and has a background in behavioral science, which he uses to train sales professionals. Previously, he was a highly successful, commission-only salesperson who was ranked among the top earners globally before retiring to start his training company.
Commitment Over Fear: Lessons in Mastery from Jeremy Miner
What separates the top 1% from everyone else? That question came to life in my conversation with Jeremy Miner, a world-class communicator, entrepreneur, and founder of Seventh Level. Jeremy’s not in the business of sales so much as he’s in the business of understanding human Read More...
Jeremy, this is Dr. So and so. He’s like, I need you to sit down. And he’s like, hey, we examine this. This is
cancer, but we can’t tell what type of cancer. From the time that you got that call to the time that you knew something, what
was that like? Your why has to be bigger than money. I know a lot of people are money driven,
but actually they’re not. They say they’re money driven, but there’s a fear that they have. Every decision you make
starts with your survival part of your brain. What makes up the best entrepreneurs, the top 1%.
The first foundation that makes a great entrepreneur, a great anyone is commitment. If you’re not committed, you
don’t take the necessary actions to have success. How important is communication?
In society, most people view what you do or anybody does as it’s just kind of the
same thing. What’s going to differentiate that is how you frame what you do. A lot of people take advice from
people who are not that qualified to give the advice. Your biggest expense in life is your lack of applied knowledge.
I always say the biggest problem in life is
Jeremy Miner. Welcome to the show. Dr. Thanks for having me on. What would you like to discuss today? you’re a
really unique uh guest because typically we have MDs, PhDs, but the one thing
that you have in common with all of them is that they are the best at what they do and so are you.
Well, at least grandma tells me I’m the best. So, thank you very much. It’s very kind, you know, as a and you’re an
entrepreneur supposedly. Yes. Trying to figure it out. An expert communicator. Fair enough to
say. A few people would say a dad and there. Yeah. Dad. Yeah. And a human. Yes. I’m hoping I’m human.
Who knows? Maybe maybe we’re maybe we’re the aliens. I really don’t know at this point. Well, the reason I bring up humanity is
because we are all fallible. Yeah, for sure. And uh we all Yes, we are. Um tell me
what makes up the best entrepreneurs, the top 1%. You’re probably in the top
5%. Trying to catch up with you. I I would say in my mind it’s the first foundation
that makes a great entrepreneur, a great business owner, great anyone is commitment. I think everything starts
from commitment because you’re if you’re not committed, you don’t take the necessary actions to have success. So in
my mind, it’s commitment. Like it doesn’t matter if it’s a bad day or something bad happened or you know
you’ve got relationship troubles or just anything could go wrong. You still wake up that day and you still get things
done and that’s commitment and I think that I think that’s something that people can actually learn.
You think they can learn it? I do. I think anything is pretty much learnable for sure. Now
almost everything. I’m not saying you’re going to dunk a basketball like MJ, you know, if you’re 5’4, but yeah. Okay.
Committed. You know, I um in my practice, I take care of a lot of uh
elite CEOs and also tier one operators, so SEALs, that whole crew. And I’ve
always felt that they were born that way. That their level of commitment
and ability to execute was not trainable, but you’re telling me that it is. So, I went to school to become a
psychologist. So, I specialize in like neurosychology, like the study of the brain and how it works with a human being’s nervous system. So really, your
whole belief system really stems from how you’re raised as a child. So it’s not really how you were born, but it’s
how you were raised and the people you were around. Uh your worldview could be influenced by, you know, your cousins
that you hang out with, your parents, the church you go to. Uh if you’re a kid now, you’re influenced by who you follow
on TikTok, right? So your your world views, your your belief systems, like commitment, it could be anything, are
really influenced by the people you’re around as a child from the ages of 4 to 13. So it’s not really I I understand
like you’re born, but it’s like it’s who influences you where really a lot of that comes from. Now, it doesn’t mean
that you’re like you’re not born as like a person that has a a gigantic personality, but to really expand on
that to become great. You’re going to be it’s who you learn from and kind of what you do with it is really get you to
where you want to go. I wouldn’t say you’re just born with it completely. I think you have like a seed of it, but
you have to expand that seed. And here’s here’s also why I say that because you might have like and and by all means I
am not an expert as a Navy Seal like I’ve never in the military but just you know it could be
like one of the best Navy Seals is a great Navy Seal because quite literally
they could have been like abused as a child and they have this fear that you
know they’re never going to be successful because their parents told them they were worthless or whatever. And so they have this drive in their
brain that they’re afraid of like not being significant. And so to be significant, they want to be a Navy
Seal. And whatever that whatever they put their mind to, they’re going to be the best at because they didn’t feel significant as a child.
I actually think that um part of that is very true. Yeah. Not that it’s a bad thing.
Very true. You know, it’s like it’s what Tony Robbins says. He’s like, you know, you have to look at life as like life
doesn’t happen to you. Life happens for you. It’s what you make of what happens in your life, like what you do with it.
And a lot of people just kind of react. And a lot of people play the victim card, whereas others like an Oprah
Winfrey, you know, she was abused as a child, has a stillborn baby, uh, African-American, raised in the 60s
where there’s like segregation and racism. I mean, what’s the chance that that freaking person becomes Oprah
freaking Winfrey? It’s extraordinary. You see, and I would say that they are born with
a certain level of attributes. And you said committed and that is your number one tip for
someone who wants to be successful. I I think it that’s the foundation of success is commitment. Without
commitment, it’s really hard to be successful in anything. But how do people become committed?
Like I said, I think it’s the people you’re around that influence you. Now, maybe if you didn’t have the best childhood, it’s like who do you hire as
a mentor? I think a lot of people don’t realize that the cost I call it the COI
the a lot of people say it and it’s not just me the cost of inaction. It’s like a lot of people like like want to learn
from their mistakes and and I think that’s good but I’d rather learn from other people’s mistakes so I don’t make
the same mistakes myself, right? And that’s that gets you to your destination like a hundred times faster. So I think
it’s who you learn from. So, you know, if you want to be a doctor like you, it’s like who taught you how to do what
you do. Like, if they were like world class and great, that’s great. And a lot of people that graduated with you
probably are good, but you probably took it to the next level and the next level and you kept learning and you kept
growing and that’s what separates you from other doctors because you had that seed. You had that some level of
commitment. You just expanded on that commitment. One way to cultivate commitment is to be in the right
circles. Yes. Do you think there’s another way? Are there ways in which and I I really like
that you said this because people will say, “Oh, you’re so motivated.” Or, “Oh,
you are so disciplined.” And I would say, “Yeah, but I think actually we’re
committed. We’re committed.” Commitment leads to discipline. Yes. You can’t be disciplined if you’re not
committed. Yes. Yeah. And commitment is interesting because people don’t really talk about it.
They’ll talk about discipline. They’ll talk about motivation, but how does someone get very clear to
then take the next step to become deeply committed? I mean, I like I said, I think it’s it’s
who you’re around as a child that really I mean, just from a psychology point of view, it’s like like who you’re around
as a child and things you learn that were both good and bad that kind of really start to shape you. But it doesn’t mean you can’t change that
reality. like an Oprah Winfrey. It wasn’t like she had the best childhood, but look what she did with it. She like
took like all this bad stuff that happened to her and she didn’t play the like a victim like a lot of people would. A lot of people would just be
like it’s not fair, right? Look what became of me versus I understand that. I totally understand
that. Especially if you don’t know what you don’t know. What I always say the biggest problem in life is the problem
that you don’t know you have because if you don’t know what your problems are, you have no idea to fix it because you
don’t really understand what the problem is. Right? And that’s why I always say find somebody who’s already mastered the
thing you want to be good at and learn from them because that’s going to get you there 100fold faster and that can
change your outlook. So there has to be somebody that influenced Oprah at some age like as example to cause her to go
to the direction she did. There was some mentor or somebody she paid or somebody took, you know, her under their wing
that really showed her the way. It’s unlikely that she just did that herself.
Very unlikely. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but your chances are greatly increased if you get around the right
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or through the link in the show notes. Um, number one, probably discerning the right people is difficult.
And then number two, is it important to have a very clear why in order to cross over to become so
committed? Because again, commitment is when everything is falling apart, you’re able to take the next right step. And it
doesn’t matter what you are surrounded by. Yeah. But to do that, from my perspective, you have to be so aligned
that the world could literally be on fire and you’re ready to take the next
I agree. It’s like your why has to be bigger than money in in my mind to to
achieve pinnacle success. It has to be bigger than money. I know a lot of people are money driven, but actually
they’re not. They say they’re money driven, but there’s a fear that they have. There’s a fear of like maybe they
weren’t seen as significant when they were younger by their family or by their peers at school. Maybe they weren’t
loved, so money like causes them to feel like higher status because people like them better. Like there’s all these
fears that drive us to actually have success that we just don’t think about. I thought that was interesting. you had
said that earlier because I you’re a very fit guy and one of well yeah I just go to the gym to try to
not get fat. That’s my whole goal so I don’t get fat. Um which is the opposite of by the way
in from our audience’s perspective it’s all about muscle right
it’s just a symptom of unhealthy muscle. Sure. Yeah. But I would say the most in
my mind we need to shift from being fear fear based to look what I can gain versus look what
I’m afraid of. Sure. But as the problem is we have this brain that’s like millions of years old whenever
whenever God put the first humans here on the earth. I don’t know when that was. And our brain was not designed for
us to thrive. Our brain is actually designed for us to survive. So every decision you make starts with your
survival part of your brain. That’s the problem. This is I agree with you. But it starts from
survival and fear. It’s challenging because do you think that you can overcome that fear or
leverage that fear? I do. Yeah, I do. I mean, obviously people do it all the time, right? But it’s it’s how they so when we have
things that happen to us, we all have go through bad things. Nobody like everybody has bad stuff happen to them,
right? But it’s what you choose to do with that. Like do you choose to be the victim or do you choose to react a
different way and make that a strength, right? I think I think uh there’s a scripture God I don’t know what it’s
called like God gives men weaknesses so he can turn them into strengths. So I believe that we get weaknesses. It’s up
to us to decide if we’re going to make those weaknesses into strengths. Now I’m pretty weak at like algebra. I don’t
necessarily want to make that into my strength because it doesn’t really help me with what I do. Right? But you see what I’m saying? We can take whatever we
have in our life and especially if we get around the right people that have already made those mistakes and we learn
what they did well and what they did wrong and we just don’t repeat the same thing. It’s really hard to fail at
whatever you want to do. Whether you want to be a parent or you want to be the best parent or if you want to be the best business owner, the best
salesperson, the best leader, best doctor, you know, I find it really hard
that if you’re committed and you get around the right people, right, that teach you skills that take to get to
that level. It’s really, really freaking hard to fail at anything. For example, as a physician, okay, you show me
someone’s disciplines or commitments and I guarantee you I will be very good at
guessing how successful they are in various domains. Oh, like have you like are there
attributes of people that tell you if they’re going to be successful or unsuccessful that you see? Yeah.
You know, there’s a there’s a lot. Um, I think a lot of it is just how they is how a person shows up in life, you know,
like even are they on time? And I’m not even necessarily saying if they’re on time or not. I know a lot of successful people, they’re always late, right? You
know, are they always late like when there’s something important going on, you know, it’s different being late to dinner on Saturday night compared to
like being 30 minutes late for a podcast or something that is really important to do. So, you know, that would be one
consideration I’d probably look at like, do they actually show up when they say they’re going to show up? You know, I know there’s circumstances that are
sometimes out of control, but if it’s like a pattern, I if anybody has like a something bad that they do, it doesn’t
necessarily mean that something is wrong with them. But if they have like they
keep doing it, that’s a pattern. That’s a behavioral pattern. And that would tell you that that’s a red flag. So, if
they keep doing this one thing, you’re like, “Oh, that’s a pattern.” And that pattern is not good or that pattern could be good. Really depends on what it
is. What about how important is communication? I can tell you. Okay. number one skill bar none in the
world always has been since the dawn of mankind. So let’s say that you’re
a Christian. You read in the Bible, it talks about there was a war in heaven
and a third of the host of heaven fell from heaven to this earth. Well, nobody talks about like how was that war
fought? Was it fought with tanks, bullets, guns, swords, shields? No, it
was a war of words. It was a war of persuasion. It was a war of influence of
ideas. And everything in this life, wars are fought because of lack of communication.
Everything comes down to how you communicate your message, how you frame your offer. Like, you know, let’s say if
you’re a fertility doctor, we were just talking about that a second. There’s a lot of fertility doctors out there in
society. Would society, like if they heard like, “I need to go get a fertility doctor.” would they say like,
“Oh, every fertility doctor is different.” Or they kind of just classify fertility doctors as kind of all the same. They just kind of do the
same thing. So, in society, most people view what you do or anybody does as it’s
just kind of the same thing. Like if you say, “I’m a real estate agent.” You’re like, “Oh, real estate agent, they sell real estate.” But there’s no difference
in their mind. So, what happens if society views everybody kind of does the
same thing in your profession and you’re all kind of the same? What’s going to differentiate that is how you frame what
you do. It’s how you frame your offer. I always say how you frame your offer. So imagine like you have two family pictures. You got, you know, your family
picture on your mantle or on your desk of you and your husband and kids might be on my dart board, but yeah. Yes. They’re dark. Okay. Yes. I like
this. I like you. So you have these two family pictures exactly the same. You
got to go buy two frames for them. The first frame you buy is like you go to like the highest end store. It’s like a
$2,000 gold frame. I mean, it’s immaculate. And you put that on that picture. For the
other frame, you then go to like the flea market and it’s got holes in it. It’s got cobwebs. It’s been beat to hell
and back. And you put that frame on the other family picture, which is the same family picture. Which frame are you
choosing? The one that was framed better. So, we call that the POB, perception of value. So, it’s how your
market perceives the value of what you do. It’s not necessarily the value of what you sell, but how they perceive
that that matters. I know a lot of companies that have amazing products that nobody knows about because they’re
not very good at the perception of that value. I also know companies that have really crappy products and services, but
they’re way better at framing their offer and the perception of value is very much higher. So, communication,
like as a fertility doctor, it’s going to come down to like why did they choose me over somebody else? How you’re framing what you do? How you make them
feel, right? How you frame that offer is what matters at the end of the day. So, your communication skills are
everything. That sounds like there’s a very humanistic nature to framing in
communication. Meaning, what is going to separate someone who’s going to go, I want to go to that doctor
versus the other one? Yeah. I’d like to acknowledge one of the sponsors of the show and that is Pury.
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lion and use the code drlion at checkout. From a human perspective,
how do we begin to communicate? Well, I I’m going to give you an example.
Yeah. I believe that we can have a stronger, more resilient world. I agree. And I I’m trying to sell that and I am
selling that hard. You’re trying to frame that. Exactly. Mhm. Because in my mind, um, and what I’ve
seen with patients, if I say, you know what, you need to be stronger. Mhm. They’re like, they’re just going to go one out. It’s
like, it’s like telling grandma like, “You got to stop smoking and grandma smoking for the rest of her life.” Yeah. What’s the first step? And I know that
you have a framework, but utilizing these tools to do good work in the world. Mhm.
And let’s say it’s not about um buying into our medical practice or
buying a book or doing any of those things, but actually selling a mission.
The first thing I’m going to talk about is how we view selling because it’s all going to start how you view what selling
really is. Okay? So, like if I asked you like, is selling something you do two people or is selling something you do
four people? What would you say? Four people. Most people would think it’s two people because they’ve never thought about it.
Right? When you when you talk about the average person who sells something, okay, they believe that selling is
something you’re doing to somebody to, you know, get your way uh to get your
way of thinking over to win them over to your way of thinking to, you know, have them buy something that you want them to
buy so you can get paid. That’s how most sales people quite literally in the world are trained. And that’s why sales
people are viewed in the world as what? High status or low status? Lower status.
How do people view sales people in general? Lower status. Hollywood. I don’t know. I like those t Do you see
those Tik Tok guys selling that those cars in Australia? I haven’t seen that one. No. There’s a lot there’s
No, it’s pretty hilarious. And they’re they’re dancing and um producers. Do you guys know what I’m talking about? You
don’t? You go to the car dealership here. Okay. Right. And if they’re trained to like
beat you on the head, right, because they don’t understand how to emotionally open up open you up and those type of
things, you’re going to run the other way cuz you’re like, “Oh, they’re pushy. They’re they’re too salesy, right? That’s how most people are viewed in
sales. So, how do you So, the reason why I started seven level was to change the way sales is perceived in society. One
salesperson, one company at a time. Because I believe that communication is the number one thing that’s going to
determine your destiny in anything you do. I totally agree. You know, like Elon Musk, it’s not like he was the only person who had the idea
of the electric car. He just knew how to frame that and communicate and sell that better. Jeffrey Bezos, it’s unlikely he
was the only person who had the idea of Amazon. He just knew how to frame that
better. He knew how to sell that message better. He knew how to do those things better. And that’s why they stand out
compared to everybody else that does something similar is how they communicate what they’re doing. If that
makes sense. It does. And it sounds to me like this is a transferable skill because people
are going to listen to this podcast and they’re going to be like, Gabrielle, this is an unusual guest. And I would
say you are an unusual guest. But the mission is it’s not just about telling
people and learning how to eat well, exercise, any of these health and wellness items
that are really important. Sure. But none of that matters if we cannot communicate it well.
Yeah. Well, 100%. And communication comes down to what type of questions do
you ask and when? I always say a lot of people have great questions, they just don’t know what to ask when and how to
ask them. You know, because have you ever wondered like if you look at sales people in general, why do sales people selling the same thing to the same
prospects, the same price points, using the same script, how do they get completely different results?
Great question. I don’t I don’t know much about sales and I would say more than what you think.
I would also say I haven’t studied communication. Yeah, but you seem like a pretty good communicator.
It is. Thank you. Uh, and I would say I believe that if you can communicate
well, yeah, then you can change the world 100%. And I want you to teach me in our time
together. What would you like to know? I just just disclaimer. It’s going to be hard to
master sales in about 45 minutes. It takes a while. But we can have the tools to practice.
Oh, 100%. And also to understand to understand. So for me, I’m selling
health. Okay. And when I say selling, I I’m not actually selling it.
Sure. But if we can get people to definitely doing it for them, not to them, because if they don’t get healthy,
well, they’re going to die probably a lot earlier than they they could have, right? Yes. And they lose those memories
with their their kids, their grandkids. There’s a lot of things. And I want people to buy in
Yeah. to the mission and to the ethos that we can be a better, stronger, more resilient
society. Yeah. So, let’s say, okay, so I mean there’s there’s a lot we could go through. What’s your first question on
sales? How do you get the buy in? And that’s a big question. It’s a big question. There’s a lot
there’s a lot of different ways. So, like what’s a what’s a question you might ask? Let’s say if you had somebody
sitting in here and they wanted to, you
know, sign up for some course you have that’s going to change their muscles,
like get them in shape, better nutrition. I don’t know if you do any of that stuff. Do all that stuff. Okay. So, what’s a question that you
might ask or your salespeople might ask to help them find problems that maybe they didn’t realize they had?
Their biggest pain point. Why are you calling? Why are you here? I like that. I would ref I would re
language it a little bit typically the reason when we ask a why question
typically um in that like oh why why did you call sometimes people will get
defensive a little bit what what caused you to to feel like you might want to you know look at what we do what caused
you rather than why because a why sometimes will cause you to get defensive right well why are you doing that right and so
but well I’m doing it because of see what I’m saying now in certain context like if I if I shifted my tone like,
“Oh, why uh why did you actually call in?” See the shift in the tone. That’s a concern tone, a tone that shows
empathy, right? So, a little shift there. If I want to use a why question, that’s just a little example. So, let’s
say that they they uh let’s say they book a call with you, right? You’re on Zoom. Uh what would most people do when
they got on Zoom? What would be one of the first words out of most salespeople’s mouth?
Well, the first thing that I would do is I would think, gosh, my hair looks a little I should brush it. Okay. Yes. Okay. What would you ask
them? Most of those people are like, “Hey, how’s it going?” Yes. And we think that’s really innocent and our mom told us to be polite to
strangers. But in a business setting, that’s a predictable question that most prospects are used to that pattern. So
prospects, our brains pick up patterns. What would be a pattern we are pretty much used to every salesperson always
asking us at the beginning of a conversation? How are you doing? Hey, how you doing? How’s your day? Now, do
you sit there and like, “Oh my gosh, I am so glad that that salesperson I I
they generally care how my day is going.” See, they know that, you know, the prospect knows you don’t care,
right? So, a lot of times, even though they don’t say it, their guard actually goes up because they’re used to that
pattern from everybody who’s trying to sell them anything. And so, they know that you’re just trying to build rapport
to sell you their thing. So, I might relanguage that like, “Hey, hey, welcome to the caller. What’s going on in your neck of the woods?” you know, I just
shifted the pattern a little bit. I’m interrupting the pattern. Does that make sense? And would this be trans and I know that
we these are learnable skills. These are learnable skills and these are also helpful in any kind of dynamic,
right? We train every industry in the world, even doctors. Yes. So that’s like I’m speaking at a big chiropractic
association uh keynote training. They’re one of our clients as well. Train lots of chiropractor uh clinics all over the
nation. It’s so it doesn’t really matter every every services any you have to have clients right you’re always selling your thing um so going back to that so
then they might yeah you know I’m doing good okay so so for your industry okay so it looks like you booked on the counter about hey I guess maybe losing
some weight and gaining some muscle right so what am I starting to do losing
maybe losing some weight gaining some muscle so you can now would you know like would they do they with you when
they booked do they fill out an application before what would they say a reason on that application. Would they say anything?
Would you uh Well, patients come to us for energy, body composition, gut health,
result of them wanting that energy because you’re not selling you’re not selling them getting more energy. You’re
selling the results of what that energy does for them. That’s what you’re really selling. It could be a better sex life.
I mean, literally, it could be a better marriage. I did actually just write a paper on that. That’s what I’m saying. It could be published peerre. It could be um they
want to get promoted and they want to have more energy at the job. It could be they want to spend more time with their boys playing basketball on the weekends,
you know, but like that’s the end result. That’s really what you’re selling. You’re not selling energy. You’re not selling health. You’re selling the results of what that does
for them. That’s what people buy. They don’t buy the thing itself. And too many people that sell things like try to sell
the thing. You have to sell the results of what the thing does. That’s just the vehicle that
gets them the thing they want. Does that make sense? It does. Okay. So, I might get on there if they put on the form that you have like, “Oh,
I want to get more energy so I can uh you know, get back out in the dating
world because they just went through a divorce.” Let’s just put it that way. So, I’m going to add that in to that first question. Okay. So, it looks like
I was reading your your uh uh your form. So, it looks like you booked on the counter, but hey, maybe uh losing some
weight, gaining some muscle so you can get back out in the dating game, right? See how I’m instantly taking them from
usually price or costbased thinking because that’s what most people think. Price or cost based thinking. Okay.
When you first start talking to a salesp person, what’s one of the first questions you start asking yourself? How much is this going to do? I ask that I
Do you start to So for me, I just I I’m pretty direct. I want to know what
it is, how much it’s going to cost. In your mind, you’re thinking Yeah. Like the average What does the average
person think when a saleserson first starts talking to them? Like, okay, that’s great. How much is it? Like you’re thinking that. You might not say
it, but you’re thinking it. So the question is, how do I take them from price or costbased thinking where
they’re focused on that to the result resultsbased thinking? So that first question starts to shift that.
And that first question should be unpredictable. Well, yeah, that’s a I’m just so that question I asked, you probably never
even heard that type of question before. Rather than like why did you call in? I might ask that a little bit down there.
Okay, so it looks like you book. I’m going to start to shift their frame. Well, you said what’s going on in your neck of the woods or something like that.
I don’t even I wouldn’t even do that. But I’m just saying if you if you like some s like oh my gosh like I’m hyperventilating because I always ask
everybody how their day is going even though we know that that’s a actually a trigger question because most people are
used to that. So what would be another way? But what’s another way to start just as I’m thinking because uh it could be for
anything. Uh so is there another way? What you’re really getting is an
engagement. Yes. It’s as I’m starting to shift their focus from how much it’s going to cost to the end result that they want. So it
doesn’t matter if I’m calling. Yeah, John. It’s it’s Jeremy Jeremy Miner with XYZ company. You responded to the ad.
You you asked us to call you back about looking at the what was it? The red uh 2022 Honda, right? If I’m a car
salesperson calling a lead back off the internet. I mean, it doesn’t matter. We train every industry. So, it’s the frameworks we train. On this show, we focus on what builds a
stronger life. And for me, that includes the hours no one sees. Evenings at home,
and that’s really our reset. Dinner with the kids, 10 minutes of reading. Okay, if you ask a teacher, it should be 20.
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how you feel. Give me another thing that you do. I’ll just show you another first question you
can ask. I mean, it could be a fertility doctor, like a care, like somebody calling back to a potential patient.
They’re not a patient yet, but maybe they filled out a form. Yeah. Okay. And you booked a call. Yes. Okay. So, uh, looks like you you you uh
booked some time to come in to talk to Dr. Johnson about well, you know, getting pregnant, having a family,
right? But see, there’s a problem here. What’s that? You are too likable. And so, is this is
how you’re likable? You think that’s something you can learn though? Cuz like what I just did with my tonality and the
questions is anybody born with advanced questions out of their mother’s womb? Anybody born with advanced?
Okay. Anybody born with advanced tonality skills out of their unlikely? Anybody born with advanced objection
prevention skills? Unlikely. Anybody born with advanced questioning skills? Unlikely. Those are all learnable
skills. In creating this framework, communication is one piece. How do we
begin to think about problems so that we can communicate better? And I’m saying problems, but again, selling people into
the practice. Yeah. How does the framework? Okay. So, those are called problem
awareness questions. So, what most what most business owners and salespeople do
and really anybody that sells anything is the prospect will tell them one problem and immediately what do they do?
They’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s a really bad problem. Let me show you how we solve that.” and they go straight to
into their solution. But the problem is usually the first problem the prospect tells you is not really the real
problem. It’s the surface problem. So it’s like the Titanic. It’s like the iceberg. They’re just showing you like
the tip of the iceberg. I teach you how to go like all the way down the other 750 m to find the whole iceberg. So you
find out everything. I call that problem finding. A lot of people say, “Oh, you got to be a good problem solver.” I’m like, well, if they don’t buy from you,
you’re not really solving any problems. If you want to be great at selling your services or whatever you do, you have to be better at problem finding. That means
how do I help them find not just one problem, but two, three, four, five problems they didn’t realize they had.
And when you’re able to do that, it actually raises your status in their
mind because they view you as more of an expert because they’ve never been asked that type of question. Does that make
sense? It does. So, like give me give me an example. Let’s just go back to your industry. So
they tell you a problem like give me a problem that maybe somebody told one of your last sales people that they had
when they first called in like oh I called in because of this. I can’t lose weight. I can’t lose weight. So do we know at
that point? So what did the sales Oh, you can’t lose weight. What do they do at that point? I I don’t know.
What what what would they normally do? Oh well oh that’s really that’s one of the that’s we solved that. Like let me
show you how. That’s exactly what that’s exactly. But the problem is is like what if that
night so what if the you know they didn’t buy on the call. Let’s just say they didn’t buy on that call or but
they’re going to buy the next day or they put down a down deposit and they’re getting their funding together in a day or two, right? And then somehow on TV
they see some new wonder drug lose weight. Now because that salesperson only found that
one problem and didn’t really open them up emotionally. Now they’re like, “Well, maybe I don’t need to buy that $10,000
training thing because I can just get that weight loss thing for 35 bucks a month.” And then the next day they call
me and cancel. See, I would once I found that problem, I’d want to find out I’d
want to help them find many other problems. So I might then say, “Well, that’s a big reason why people come to
us for sure like how much uh like where are you at now?” Just so I understand like what do you what do you weigh now?
So when we’re talking about weight, you sensitive, hey, what do you weigh now? Well, that’s kind of private, but like
what? Just help me understand like what do you what do you actually weigh now? See how my tone shifts down? I know. I’m mesmerized.
That’s a concern tone. That’s something you learn. You learn these things. Yes. Who Who’s born with a concern tone?
A tone that shows empathy compared to playful tone. Those are things you have to learn. You know who teaches that kind of stuff?
No. Well, we do now, but I went to acting school to learn that type of stuff as a salesperson. My second year in sales, I
was at this event with a guy named Larry Moss. uh teaches like uh Helen Hunts, one of his clients, Jennifer Gardner,
Jim Carrey, Toby Magcguire, Leonardo DiCaprio. So in acting, do you know that when you
go to high level acting school, like we’re talking highest level, we’re talking about just, you know, Betsy down
the road for 20 bucks an hour. No offense, Betsy, I love you. But at the highest levels, they teach those actors
and actresses facial expressions, tonality shifts,
body language, verbal pacing, verbal pauses. You know why? Because can you
imagine if Who’s your favorite actor, actress? I don’t know if I have a favorite. So, uh, let’s just say The Rock.
Don’t tell me you’re one of those. I never watch TV. I never watch. I know I do. I’m watching The Terminal List on repeat.
Okay, so The Rock. Yeah. Okay, so The Rock. Um, that’s great. So, can you imagine I don’t know the Rock’s
tonality, but imagine The Rock in What’s your favorite movie with him? Funny movies.
Well, I mean, right now, all we’re watching our cartoons, I would say Moana. Oh, well, okay. That’s a bad example.
Let’s take Tom Cruz. Mission Impossible 12. Perfect. So, imagine if Tom Cruz was like if if
he had the same tone the whole movie, John, we got to go down to the river
because there’s a bomb there. And if we don’t get the bomb, the CIA is not going to do anything. And the CIA could like destroy the whole world. And then
there’s going to be anthrex. And then at that point, we wouldn’t be able to do anything. And then after about five minutes, you’d probably turn off the
show because it’s a monotone tone. There’s no shifting in the tonality and the pacing of that
tone, just like I did right there. Those are things you learn how to do. Nobody’s born with those skills. I would love it.
I was born those skills. It would have made it a lot easier. I wouldn’t have had to, you know, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to acquire those
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to support your biology. In terms of top performance, I mean, the only way you get to where you are is
because you’re committed and you’ve sought these things out. Yeah. What do you think is important as it
relates to top performance? How does someone get to perform at the top?
Well, I I think it’s anything. I I always classify people in four categories. And I think I classify
salespeople in these four categories. Business owners, moms and dads,
doctors, anybody. There’s four types. There are those who wing things. Those
are the wingers, right? So those are the people like in sales, that would be the type of person that, you know, says
something different to every prospect. They don’t know what works. You know, they don’t know what works. They don’t know what doesn’t work. Uh and when they
don’t make a lot of sales, who do they typically blame? The prospect. Oh, prospects are broke. like they got fear.
They never blamed their lack of skill level. Where most of those sales people go, they get fired. That’s the winger.
Now, think about like in your profession, what would be a winger? Somebody that probably like walks into
the gym, kind of hits a few machines here and there, doesn’t know what to eat
that causes them to lose weight, just, you know, eats salads with thousand island dressing smeared all over it, and
wonders why they don’t lose weight. You know, that would be a winger. They just kind of wing it. Does that make sense? And that’s why they never get what they
want, right? So that could be a doctor, that could be a CEO, that could be anybody, an athlete. They just kind of
wing it. And that’s why they never succeed. But they rely on their talent instead of hard work.
They could work hard. Like you could be a salesp person and work your head to the ground, but if you don’t know what
you’re saying, that works. You don’t understand what not to use, you can still work hard and not be successful.
It it just really depends on what it is, right? Uh, the second type of person I classify as more they kind of dabble in
things. I call that the dabbler. So, if they’re a salesperson, a dabbler would be somebody that would maybe buy a few
sales a year, maybe attend a free event. Maybe they follow me on Instagram or,
you know, YouTube to get a free, you know, these are free, it’s just free basic content. And they believe the lie
that if they just stand long enough, if they get enough reps, eventually they’ll figure it out themselves, which we all
know that strategy takes years, if not decades, to ever do. And if they ever get good, they they, you know, they’re
forced to play the numbers game. They have to work 12, 14 hours a day because they’re not very good at communicating.
They just put in more hours and they eventually burn out. That’s a dabbler. So like in your profession, what would be a dabbler? Somebody who just kind of
dabbles in it. Think about that. You know, there’s probably some doctors that went to medical school and did just
enough to get the degree, but they’re not really that successful in their practice because they just kind of dabble in it. They don’t get better.
They don’t learn new technology. They’re old school. We probably call that like a dabbler, if that makes sense. Like a
like a Navy Seal. Uh, you know, probably not a dabbler, but there’s going to be Navy Seals that are up at this level
compared to some that are at this level. So once they got to that level, you know, what did this person do compared
to these people down here? There was something different they did, right? Tom Brady, same thing. Okay, I could go on
and on. Then you have the know-it-aller. That’s the person that in sales initially invested quite a bit of
funding in sales training. They got good, maybe they got to six figures, multiple six figures. Then they get a
big head, big ego, think they know everything about persuasion. They stop investing their skill level and their
income gets capped. So think about your profession. What’s a know-it-aller? Somebody who thinks
annoying. Yeah. Well, somebody who thinks that they know everything, that they can never get better, that they’re best, and
that everybody else. That’s a know-it-all, right? And we all know that comes from ego. And we all know ego is
the greatest prohibitor of somebody getting to the highest level they could, right? And then the fourth person, I
call that person, it’s any area of life. I call that person committed to mastery. That’s your top 1% or higher. The ones
who are committed, like committed to mastery, they’re always investing in their skill level because they know
their skill level determines how much they get paid, right? And they know that training is not something they like did
in the past, but training is something they do to get to the top and stay there. So, think about like your
favorite athlete. Were they a winger, dabbler, know-it-all, committed to mastery, committed to mastery?
Always uh you know, best doctors in your space, including you. Winger, dabbler, know-it-aller committed to mastery.
committed to mastery. I don’t know many people that are not committed to mastery. That’s a good circle of friends to have
for sure. That’s where you want to be, right? You want to be around people who are all committed to mastery. Not everybody is though. But that’s choice.
You can choose that. Or if somebody who’s on that road to mastery, like you might not have mastered something yet,
but you’re you’re putting in the time, you’re putting in the skill level. You’re learning from other people. That’s a good person to be around, too.
If you’re not like if you’re like new and upcoming, right? You’re not always going to be like hanging out with billionaires, you know, as a as a
21-year-old necessarily, but you can hang around with people who want who are going that place. So, if you think about
any person in life, the the greatest parents in life, wingers, dabblers, no committed mastery, like I could keep
going on. So, those four types of people, and you just got to decide which which group you want to hang out with,
you know, it sounds pretty extreme. You know, it just depends on what type of results
you want in any area of your life. Like I said, it could be a parent, winger, dabbler, no commit to
master. Like, if you want to be the best parent in the world, you’re going to probably get books and training on like how to how to do everything the right
way. You’re not just going to wing it like a lot of parents do. I’ve winged parenting sometimes here and there. I’m going to be real, you know? But I’ve had
to like in the last several years, I’m like, you know, I need to learn more about relationships and stuff, you know? I’ve done all this stuff with sales and
sales training. Like, have I been a dabbler in relationships? It’s like I need to take a relationship course, you
know. I went to Tony Robbins relationship stuff is amazing, you know. I learned so much, you know. Yeah.
And then you apply it. So you there’s probably a difference between those that just do and then those that ultimately
apply. Yeah. I always say your biggest expense in life is your lack of applied
knowledge, not just knowledge. I know a lot of people that have a lot of knowledge, they just don’t do anything with it. They don’t apply it.
So here’s what I think. So, if I’m being honest, I think your skill Thank you for being honest with me. I hope you be honest with me.
Yes. You know, it’s so funny when someone says, “Oh, I’m just being honest.” You’re like, “Would you normally lie?” That’s exactly why I did that.
But what I’m trying to get to and I I think that the audience will love
because I’m also interested in it. And meaning um I think that people don’t
make the connection between what your profession is. So, we talking about sales,
but what you’re really good at, and forgive me for saying this, is people. Yeah.
You’re very good at people, framing questions and connecting and
moving them towards action. That’s what selling is. Most people just have never been trained to do it the right way. I’ve come in and like
humanized sales. And it just becomes for my background. I was going to become a psychologist. And I’m not a
psychologist, by the way. I actually dropped out. I want to clarify. I dropped out my senior year. I have eight credits left legit.
Why would you do that? Because I I was already in like I had a big corporate career. I was making five times more than the professors teaching
me and I was like I’m not going to be a psychologist. I’m going to be in the sales side. So like why do I need to get
finish my degree as a psych? I just didn’t you know I was just making too much money as a kid. You know I was like 22. So it just but going back I took
what I learned from my studies and it wasn’t you know I expanded that like I would go out and buy courses. I would go
to seminars. Like you’re not going to learn all that stuff from just going to psych 101 or anything, right?
You only learn a little bit of that. Um, but I took that and my first job I got
in college was selling doortodoor like alarm systems. And I remember the sales manager, he told us like, “Yeah, you got
to knock on 100 doors. You’re going to talk to 30 people that’ll be home. Out of those 30 people, you’re going to sell
one.” So my brain is like, well, if I talk to 30, like, why can’t I sell
like 25 of them? I don’t understand. Like, I’m preventing something bad from happening. It’s like life insurance
almost, like I’m preventing I’m deterring intruders from breaking in, like physically like, you know, coming in, hurting people, like tearing stuff
up, stealing valuables, like, you know, all that stuff. So, like my mind was like that doesn’t make sense. Like I I
don’t want to talk to 30 people and I sell one. Like I want to be able to help as many people as I can. So when I I first started cuz I didn’t know what I
was doing, right? I was just using their script. Door slam, slam, slam. And most sales people would be what? They’d be
like, “Oh, this is a bad neighborhood. These people are mean. They’re all broke.” Always blaming the prospect. My
mind goes, “Okay, what did I say or what did I ask or how did I what did I how
did I use my tone that triggered that reaction in their nervous system?” Because anytime somebody goes into fight
orflight mode, that’s a triggered reaction. not from them. It’s something that’s triggering that that you’re doing
the salesperson. Okay. And so I just would reverse engineer. I’m like, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If I talk too fast,
they seem like they’re just the guard’s always up, so I need to slow down a little bit.” And a lot of stuff I had to just kind of learn on my own. Now, there
I learned from other people, body language experts, you know, I learned from Larry Moss, tonality, those type of
things. And I kept expanding that. But I was looking as like I was kind of like Tom I was like, you ever seen that Tom
Brady documentary? so good. It talks about his life and his dedication to the craft and how he
became the best. And Tom never really blamed his teammates necessarily. Very
rare. He always is like, “Oh, I threw that interception.” So he go back and watch the game film. He’d be like, “Oh,
yep, yep. My front foot, I was too forward on that.” And so the ball sailed about 4 in high. He’s always looking for
his mistakes so he can correct those the next game. That’s how I viewed sales. I’d always review the film, the game
tape or the recordings. I’d record a bunch of stuff to see where did I lose a sale? What did I do right there? And I
started like messing like putting it all together. And that’s a parallel for life, right? It’s how you do this would also
translate to how you become better at life. I want to know what I’m doing wrong. I always say the like I said, the
biggest problem in life, biggest problem in sales is the problem that you don’t know you have. Because if you don’t know what your problems are, you can’t ever
fix it. So you it’s always really good to take constructive feedback from the right people though.
A lot of people take advice from people who are not that qualified to give the advice. And that’s the problem that I
see with a lot of people that have training programs is a lot of them not all of them but a lot of them are
amateurs just they just don’t have enough experience. They don’t have the credentials. They don’t have the
success. You know I was talking to you know Alex Hermosi. I’m not like personal friends with him but we talk here and
there. I know his wife. Oh okay. I don’t know his wife. I I’ve never met them. They just would talk on the phone here and there. And I was
congratulating about his big book launch and all that stuff. And we were talking about like all these people out there,
these coaches or whatever. They’re like, “Hey, we’re going to scale your business to 100 million, 200 million a year, and you find their background.” They never
did that in their own business. So you’re if you’re taking advice about how to scale your business from somebody who never scaled theirs, like what’s likely
going to happen? Probably not what you want. And so you always have to see like who am I taking advice from? what was their
track record with what they’re teaching me now. What was their track record when they were in the thick of it? Because I
always say, you can steal somebody’s content, but you can never steal their wisdom and their experience
in making that content. That’s why it’ll always be a watered down version of what you do. It’s like trying to copy Tony Robbins just because you hear him at
events. If you don’t understand the psychology behind it and how he came up with it and his experience using it,
you’re going to be a shell of that person. Do you think that sales um has
taught you to navigate life better? It is. And you know what it is? It’s
still teaching me that. I always say I know nothing.
I’m just a student. I’m still learning just like everyone else. In terms of rejection,
sales has a lot of rejection. I It depends on your skill level. If my skill level is up here, I’m going to get
a lot less rejection than if it’s down here. Right. Wait. Uh $3,000.
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bank. How would you now or then how would you handle rejection?
I don’t like if somebody doesn’t buy something from me like when I was in the trenches selling as a salesperson
working for companies if somebody it’s not like I sold everybody. Um but they knew when I got out of that conversation
that I was genuinely concerned for the consequences for them of them not changing their situation. And that’s how
I looked at sales. like I’m sorry I couldn’t help you but I’m cons I wouldn’t say this but like they knew I
was concerned about the consequences because they didn’t buy and that gives a lot of people to call you back if that
makes sense. So you didn’t internalize I never I don’t No because like I’m not the one that has the problems.
They do. I’m the one that can solve them though. That’s what sales is. Like I’m not the
one that has the problems. I’m the one that can solve them. So why I’m not going to qualify to them. I’m not going
to be a douche, but I’m not going to qualify to, you know what I mean? Without some sales people like that. Like, oh, you know, I’m not sure if
you’re qualified for what we do. Like, nobody believes that. Like, that’s not a technique. So, I’m not going to qualify
to them. I teach sales people how to get the prospect to qualify to you because you’re the one that can solve their
problems. You can take away their pain. You can take away their fear of future pain. Right? I mean, with what you sell,
the two biggest, I always say this, the two biggest emotional drivers that cause a human being to want to change are actually pain and the fear of future
pain. A lot of people say it’s pain and the pleasures second. Pleasure is a distant third. Just like I told you,
like with what you do, if somebody’s like, “Man, I got to get in the best shape of my life because I want to look
great in that bikini this summer on the beach.” Well, that’s what they say to you. But what is their fear? They have a
fear that when they get on that beach, they’re going to be judged by others. They’re not going to look that good.
They’re not going to feel good. That’s a fear of future pain. Pleasure is always a distant third.
That’s interesting. I would always think that motivation, not motivation in the sense of rah, but the overachieving
aspect would drive people or to see what they’re capable of. Fear can do that. Fear can drive you to
overachieve. Fear is not a bad thing necessarily. Fear can literally drive you to be successful because maybe you
grew up poor as a kid and you never want to be poor again. So that fear continually drives you to make more
money. Does that create So you are known I don’t know if you know this but for a very high performance lifestyle. Did you
know that? I did not know that. Um and you were saying that you did you know that I didn’t even know that. I I thought we
were just a sales training company. High performance lifestyle. Yeah. High performance lifestyle is I
mean it’s being able to operate at a very high level and there’s a level of mastery for that.
Okay. I mean there is not a difference between being the best at what you do over here versus being the best at what
you do in medicine or being the best at what you do if you’re a speaker or communicator. There are through lines.
Yeah. Um and there are habits that go with those through lines. So I’m curious as to some of your high performance habits.
Do people not ask you about your own personal physical habits? Just to be upfront with you, I go to the gym so I don’t get fat.
Which is hilarious. Which I’ve never heard that from a high perform so I’m not going to be I think most people go
to the gym because that they just don’t tell you that. No, they would tell me. I’m just real. They definitely look if
somebody’s like I want to get big like you know I want to be strong. It’s because they have a fear of looking out
of shape. They have a fear that people are going to judge them. It just comes back to human the human needs we all
have. Um, think about it. If that is the case, what what are some of the things that you do so you don’t
get fat? So, I go to the gym. So, I go to the gym uh, you know, depending on travel schedule. I try to go 5 days a week when
I’m in town. Uh, I’d say on average it’s about four times a week, but I do three times a week. I do hit training. So,
like I have a coach there at the the gym owner like has a coach. It’s like four of us, you know, it’s really good. I go
at 5:30 in the morning. Like always I always wake up at 5:00. I’m not a 4 a.m. person. Like I don’t Those are a
different breed. That’s for sure. My co wakes up at 3:30. Like, bro, the 3:00 a.m. club, like, you’re the whole different level. Like, I’m 5:00 a.m.
Like, I’m the wimp. They have genetic mutations. I Something’s going on. Something’s going on. I’m telling you. So, I go to the gym early to that’s the
time I I can just get it done. Um, so three times a week I do hit training. One time a week I do CrossFit. That’s
usually the schedule. If I go five times a week, I’ll probably do HIT training four of those times. One time a week CrossFit. I try to eat halfway decent.
I’m definitely I would say a dabbler in the eating game because I have a weakness for like cookies here and
there, but I try to get like sugar-free cookies that makes me feel better. I don’t know why. I’m not sure. It’s
probably just like a market. You sold it to yourself. Yeah. Like 78% less sugar, you know? So, I uh
I just, you know, I I take supplements. Um You do? What kind of supplements do you take? Uh I I took the 10X supplements, but I
just switched over to a new brand. Okay. Like I don’t know. But you don’t overthink it. Do you don’t overthink it? I need to do better. I
need to do better. Like I need better outsource it to someone who is a master at their craft. I need to get a master. I need to hire
you, doctor. I’m not taking patience. See, look at this. She’s getting me to qualify to her. I like it. You’re
already I don’t even know what I’m doing. But no, I You’re already learning. Well, you can maybe refer me to somebody because I need to take it more seriously because
I’m we’re all getting older. Here’s what I would say. Time flies by quickly. Time is your biggest asset.
It does because once it’s gone, you can never get it back. You can be a billionaire. You can’t buy more time.
That’s right. or more health. So, I want to know you’re not off the hook. Dabler on supplements. I would say I’m committing to mastery on
supplements. I’m doing much better. I’ve had peaks in my life where I took them all the time for a year straight and
then for some reason something goes wrong with an order. I just get busy and then four months later I’m like, crap, I
I need to take the supplements again. I I So, I probably need to hire somebody that just does it for me. What about nutrition? How what what does
that look like for you? Um I so I eat really really healthy like Sunday
through Friday. I am really really good. So I I buy meals from like uh some Yeah.
Protein some other place like but I have like a I had a trainer that I hired that like you know did my blood work and
stuff and showed me like all the like what type of food to eat, why this is better. So I did really good. My
weakness is Saturdays. Like I don’t do very good on Saturdays doctor. Like sometimes I eat cookies on Saturdays if I can just cut out the cookies.
No, that’s by choice cuz you know it’s coming for you. Yes. So, it’s not actually a weakness. And I know the mind plays tricks on you
and I still have a hard time overcoming the mind. I’m I’m working on that. I even know what the mind is doing. No, you don’t. You want to have those
cookies and you’re telling yourself it’s Well, there’s like a sugar addiction. You know, sugar is a drug. No, it’s not a drug. No. And uh typically addictions don’t
just happen on Saturday afternoons. Okay. Valid. You know, I’m like so I I’m like the person that’s like really like
like these days of the week like I am perfect, but then it’s like a cheat day, you know. I just go too extreme on a
cheat day. It’s like three meals in a cheat day instead of one. Listen, I am telling you, I will tell you this as someone who takes care of
entrepreneurs. Health is a common denominator. They will never get higher than their health. You cannot outpace your biology. Period.
End of story. Sure. And I would say entrepreneurs are the new kind of warrior. I mean, we have the
warriors. Yeah. But their tolerance for pain and suffering and mistakes is very high.
Yeah. The mental clarity. I want to talk to you about that when I have you on the show for sure. which is going to be soon.
Can you talk to me um about your own health? So, there was something um and I
think it’s really important to to share when we go through stuff because people look at you and I’m sure they are
inspired and they think everything is easy and all of it is rosy, but it’s not
all the time. So, you’re you’re talking about the stuff I the cancer stuff. I am. Okay. A lot of people I’ve only been
asked that like one at a time. Uh so, I I found out I had no idea. So about two
little over two years ago, two years ago in June, little over two years ago, I
noticed like there was this like little there’s just like this ball back here at the back of my leg, like back side of my
leg. And it had been there for probably at least a decade. It didn’t hurt. I never thought anything about it. And I
kept I was just rubbing it one day. I’m like, you know what? I should probably go to like a dermatologist one of these days. And I’d said that before years
before, I just never did. And so I went to a dermatologist, you know, because I didn’t know what it was. And uh you know
he examined it and he’s like uh you know it’s a tumor but it’s like 100% benign for sure. Like you don’t even need to
get it taken out. Like you can get it taken out or you know we can go in and and take it out. It’s totally up to you.
It’s it’s 100% benign if it’s been there for 10 years. Doesn’t hurt or anything. I’m like why don’t you take it out
because like you went to a dermatologist feeling. Yeah. Cuz I I just thought it was a bump. I didn’t know what it was
you know. So not a general surgeon. You went to the dermatologist. They ultrasound it. So yeah. So they just thought it was
benign. So I went to the dermatologist. They removed it and I still remember his words. He’s like, “Oh yeah, this looks a
little bit different.” He’s like, “Yeah, we’ll take it back. I’m sure it’s not a big deal.” Like, you know, we’ll micros,
you know, whatever they do. And you know, I had a I was going to Europe for vacation like a week later. He’s like,
“I’ll call you in a couple weeks.” I like, “Yeah.” He’s like, “But don’t worry about it. It’s probably nothing.” I’m like, “Okay.” So I’m in France. I
still remember the room I was in France. I was in a hotel room. It was in uh was it Mar? No, it was uh Nice. No,
Marseilles. Marseilles, France. And I get this call from a 480 number and it’s like 10:30 at night. I’m like, who’s
calling me? Like and I just I never usually answer the call. But for some reason, I was like, I need to take this
call. I don’t know why. And it it was unlisted phone number. So I just like, hello. He’s like he’s like, yeah, Jeremy, this is Dr. So and so. He’s
like, I need you to sit down. And I’m like I it’s a weird feeling. I don’t know. I’m like
can you pause? Was your heart racing? Yeah. I didn’t really know what to It was almost like the move was like, “I need you to sit down.” It was that tone
shift. You know, you could tell like there was some concern there. And he’s like, “Hey, we examine this.”
He’s like, “We don’t this is cancer, but we can’t tell what type of cancer. We’re going to send this off to the Cleveland
Clinic because this looks like a very rare type of cancer. Saroma is very rare.” Yeah. And we want to make sure. And it’s
going to take about three to four weeks. Well, I had just got there probably like three or four days. I had about three
more weeks there. So the whole time I’m there, I didn’t know like did I have
three months, six months, a year, 10 years. I I didn’t It might not have been big deal. I didn’t know. But it was it
was it was an interesting time in my life for sure. Um and so when I got
back, I didn’t tell anybody though. But the thing a lot of people like, why didn’t you say anything to anybody? Because I didn’t want to, especially
since I didn’t know what it was at that time. I didn’t want to worry anybody especially like all my employees like I
think I told my business partner at that time that was it and swore secrecy because I didn’t want to worry I got clients you know we got clients all over
the world like I’m not going to get them worried but I don’t even know what it is and so then when I got back he’s like
you know saroma it’s like 65% survival rate so this and then they did the MRIs
or whatever they do they didn’t find any cancer anywhere else I just didn’t I just didn’t tell anybody because I didn’t want I didn’t want people to
worry and That makes sense. You know, I didn’t I just I didn’t want my kids to worry. I didn’t tell my kids till like a
year later. I didn’t tell any of my employees. I didn’t tell CL I didn’t go
out and announce it or anything because first of all, I was like it wasn’t like
stage 4 or anything, you know, but it was it was big. But you didn’t know at that time. I didn’t know. Well, even when I found
out, you know, cuz then I had to go get surgery on it. So then they bring in because the dermatologist is not like a
tumor specialist. So when they did that, some of it they got most of it out, but then it like spread out all over the
place, right in here, right? So then they bring in like a really high level specialist. He takes it out, he removes
the rest of it out. That was a painful surgery, by the way. Holy hell. Were you under general anesthesia?
Uh what? They knocked me out. Yeah, for sure. It was really painful. Like I was on like uh you know uh what what what’s
the drug they take you? oxycodin or something like every couple hours like for it was painful for about five six
days really bad and so anyways um then I keep going you know everything’s
good you know start walking again after five six days back in the office working everything and then like 3 months later
I was up on no it was actually right after because there’s a bunch of staples there’s like 45 staples there so I think I had to have the staples
there it was big it was like all the way here so after they took the staples out
this like maybe a month and a half later. I remember I was speaking on stage in Salt Lake City and I remember
it’s like the day after I just kind of moved this way real quick and I felt a tear. Gosh.
And I was like, “Oh.” And then I went to the hotel room that night and it was like it was bleeding a little bit and I could tell it was like open. Well, I
didn’t think anything of it like an idiot. And the next day I went to like Cabo and I’m sitting in like the hot tub
and that’s probably not a good idea with an open wound. Well, then it gets infected. I get really sick the day I
come back like two days later and they have to like I almost passed out. So my girlfriend at the time like took me to
the ER cuz I I was I was like white in the face. Look really bad. You were going
and I got some type of infection. It’s called starts with an S. It’s like it’s a bad infection. Staff
staff infection. Yes. And so then they’d open the wound back up and for two straight days they put
like some type of drains in there. So I have like this wound and IV antibiotics. Oh my god. Yeah. the painful two days in
my life, morphine, all that stuff like just like drugg me up and then they bring in the doctor again to redo it and
so then I had to go through you know so it was like three surgeries in like six months not very fun but you know I’m just complaining now
okay first of all you’re not complaining and second of all I want to share um what saroma is because it’s a rare type
of cancer and it arises from mezenymal tissue which is uh connective tissues
that support in the body and there are more than 70 different subtypes It is very rare. It’s either
soft tissue, saroma, bone. This wasn’t bone. This was soft tissue. Uh it is less than 1% of all adult
cancers. Wow. There you go. From the time that you got that call to the time that you knew something,
what was that like? It really It really taught me a valuable lesson that our lives fly by really
quickly. And so, you know, I was worried about um my kids, you know, I have five
kids, especially my youngest one, you know, cuz she was five at that time. I was like, is she going to know her dad
growing up, so that was really tough on me. You know, my older kids, they would miss
me, of course. But they they’re a little bit older, you know. You know, now they’re 18 through 24, but I was still
worried about them. You know, what would their lives be without me? um what would
my company be like without me? So these things were all going through my mind,
you know, at that point for sure in a big way. That was pretty rough, but it taught me a valuable lesson that
at the end of the day, you know, the only you take two things
with you in the next life. You take your knowledge that you learned and I believe you take the love that you had for your
family and your fellow man. And that’s really the only two things you take into the next life. And so it made me start
to realize like, hey, there’s areas of your life you need to get better at because you don’t know your your time or
date that you know God’s going to take you. So it was a valuable lesson for sure.
And do you still think about it? Not as much anymore, you know, cuz it’s it was isolated to that. So the doctor’s
like, it’s very rare. Like if it was spreading all over, we got a problem. But since it’s been there for 10 years
in the same place and hasn’t spread, it’s good. Um but still, you know, I’m I
definitely cut down sugar intake, you know, different things like that. Took more supplements. I need to get better. Um it comes up
here and there. Uh, I don’t think any of us I think AI is really cool because I
think that AI is really going to help with some of this stuff, you know, preventative stuff. Um, but it’s
definitely a situation that it really causes you to really reflect on your life for sure.
Most people um don’t have those uh they go through life and and they don’t have those.
Yeah. How did you process it? I mean because you said it was a tough time but you are
I just kept going. Like the thing with me is like I I put on horse blinders. Yeah. Like we had we have hundreds of
thousands of clients everywhere. Every industry. They paid us to get a result. I’m not
going to let my circumstances hold them back. So in my mind, that’s why I didn’t say anything because I’m like I don’t
want to get them worried. Like they’re going to be taken care of. like I have to still perform for them. And so I I
really I think that really helped me cuz I it caused me not to think about it all the time. Like I wasn’t I didn’t have
self-pity. Like I was like I have things to do. I have people to help. Like I’m going to go forward and I didn’t really
think about it that much. I thought about it some but like I wasn’t sitting there like crying every day, you know?
Like I’m doing something in my life. I have purpose and that’s why I want to stay here. And I think that’s important.
I think a lot of people don’t do that. They get into this like, oh no, you know, like why is this happening to me?
I I didn’t necessarily think like that. I just thought like it’s a thing and I got to deal with it, but I’ve got other
things I got to deal with and I’m just going to go forward. And I know that’s probably not the most
greatest answer, but it’s just kind of what happened. I just had things to do.
And so this is another thing that I had to deal with. And I think as an entrepreneur, you have things you have to deal with every day. And as long as
you know that you can do those things you and you can do it at a high level and do other things, like you just don’t
you don’t worry about it. There was no narrative. I I do. Yeah. I don’t I don’t have like a a a
sad story around it. I’m just like I got to do these things. This is the thing I have to deal with. I was I was kind of
pissed off because it took a lot of time. I had to go get MRIs and like all these scans all the time and sit in waiting rooms and like this sucks. Yeah.
Yeah, it’s, you know, I had to go like just all this stuff for like 6 months, you know, like every I think every four to 6
months I have to go back and get more tests or whatever to make sure it doesn’t come back. But it’s You have to do that now.
Yeah. It’s like every four or six months they do some type of scan or something. I don’t know.
Um, this might surprise you. Yeah. But the best of the best at what
they do do not have a narrative about I had one patient who um he was a a 20-year seal
and he lost his leg. Some girl was texting and driving and he was you know in my office 6
months later and I was asking these questions just much like I’m asking you now
and I was like how is this how are you doing? and I’m expecting this pity and
you know a litany of other answers. And he was like, “Ah, you’re talking about my leg.” He’s like, “Doc, that was like 6 months
ago. Get over it.” He’s got things he’s got to do. He’s got things he’s got to do. Yeah. Um, you know, I have a lot more
questions for you and I know that we are probably um running out of time because you have to
Great questions. You really made me think. It was really good. Thank you. So um my my last question is
if you could give people one piece of advice whether it is in business, in sales, in health, in life,
what would it be? It’s going to sound boring. I always say success is simply a choice.
Choose. Well, that’s about it.
It’s just a choice. Once you choose, you do the things that
successful people do. You make decisions like successful people do. You make choices like successful people do. But
you first have to choose. I love that. Yeah, I think you’re very inspiring.
Thank you very much. You’re going to make me cry if you’re tear me up. And I hope everybody
uh learned something. You know, this is a section that we are calling strong icons.
And uh it’s not just about medicine. It is about the person
in their very whole being. So, I was wondering what you were gonna ask me today. I was wondering what you were gonna ask
me today. I’m like, what is she actually going to ask me about persuasion and influence and stuff? This is a really good You have a really show.
Congratulations. Thank you. You’re welcome.
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